cman

Not all Christians think that way Bill. As you may know. I am what some would call a Christian, but I don't use the word of myself or throw it around about myself because of the current state of western Christianity as depicted in the statement I quoted from you. Which is unfortunately true in many, too many cases.

it don't get any better then this someone in the middle of war saying to put down your weapons

I don't know... I'm just glad we can speak to each other without any problem. Both of us clearly want to understand and see more. So...I'm not sure the words will come from me. In order for you to see the desires of your heart and more. That's not my department...:) And I do learn from your words as well. Somehow there is not any contradiction between yours and my words. Just different perspectives of understandings. Which will cross paths eventually. As everyone's will I believe.....

I do like those verses in Peter. If the scripture is not by man's will. Then neither can a man interpret them. They must be interpreted by the Holy Spirit. The strong man must be bound. And his goods will be taken. His interpretations, his thinking. Does it not say he will come as a thief? And also in Glory. All of our knowledge of scripture, our knowledge of customs and the times. Does not interpret the scripture. 'came not in old time' It will come in it's time and that time will be present. Certainly it's good to know what the scriptures say. And that is only on the surface of the scripture. To get to the deep things of God it takes the Holy Spirit. The deeper meaningS of scripture. Then it's the Word living and real and experienced. As we experience this Word, this is when it is seen. As it is shown to us by the Spirit and not what we think. And it's even better then, I'd say. As Romans and many places say. We must die to see Christ. Not physical but mentally dead to our own thinking. To let this peace that passes all understanding take hold. Scripture is not the Word, Christ is the Word. No man can see God and live. The only begotten Son, Christ, declares God. Is the declaration God? Or is it what is sparked in the heart. Which will take the declaration even further.

Thanks for your words RainbowsGirl. I do believe you are right on track with the topic. In considering the Word, I don't think scripture is the Word. Scripture is a result of the Word which is Christ. And how we each understand that Word written in the heart, we act according to the will that is the heart. So it's in the heart that the matters of will are performed. And not scripture is the word of God and will of God. But a growing learning experience of process' being lived. And our changing perspective, understanding and being shown Christ. By way of being shown we can see. Words from others can enhance and broaden our perspective. As it is seen and heard in wisdom, spirit, and understanding. That's what is being shown to me anyway. So I don't have to rely on my ability but on that which is done inside. Then the will can be executed by a decision. To either think or do a thing or three or more. Seeing and hearing from new eyes and new ears with a new heart and mind. Is not something that can be forced, or forced into submission. But allowed to occur at the spirit's will. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. So our common sense is there to keep us going as well.

I find it refreshing, that this fella sees that in Revelations the seals are opened. Though that's not his exact words, it seems to be what he sees. As opposed to Daniel where those things are sealed. Although Daniel receives a promise as well in chapter 12. The rest is a lot of history as you noted. History of the writers and the happenings of the day. But I don't think either Daniel or Revelations is dealing with world events. As in the meat of what it's talking about. But events of the individual soul and spirit of every person. Whenever these things do happen within, it will be now then, as now is now. And I believe has happened already in many, which was now then. As well as a continual coming of the Lord's Day. For each person. Which also reminds me of Genesis 2:4. So a few thoughts. Not too much I hope. Overall he seems honest.

Thanks RainbowsGirl, that helps. And I can relate to processing info as it comes and when to speak of it. I'll check it out.

If you could give me an idea of what you are doing with Daniel and Revelations, that might help with where I can chime in. Cause I don't know much and know a lot about what I don't know :). I think what both Daniel and John were seeing were in real time for themselves and what they could see of the layers and changes that all go through. I don't think it was some movie for them, like the word vision seems to indicate. To me, History regarding these things would be different according to each person. Although it stays current and changing. Some could have already experienced what they were saying and speaking of.

There was no name calling or anything else that you, Geisha, have attributed to me. No Fangs or anything else. What you described about your church and way of thinking, is cult-like behavior within a church. I asked you a question, but you want war with words. I'll pass and move on to more productive threads.

Hi RainbowsGirl, I'll have to give it some more thought. Right now I gotta go to work. But it sounds interesting and I think we can see some 'will' also.

Sounds like the geisha's are in a cult like church rut. Another Jesus huh? Do you want to tell what the real one is? Since it's preached every week and all.....

Thanks for the input anotherDan and RainbowsGirl. I think there is a lot to what is said about now as well. Our current experience is probably in there as well.

What group or church are you involved in Geisha? Just wondering if this is a church doctrine of your church or your own thinking, that's all. I wouldn't argue, but I can discuss. Just because one does not call themselves a christian, that does not stop anything by God or the Spirit moving in them.

Matthew 18 10Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. `was that one sheep his or not, even while lost` Luke 15 3And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 5And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

That is an accusation. Who are you saying is doing this? And why do YOU think this way.

Excellent points WordWolf. I get tired of the accusations just because these things need to be discussed.

Hey Dot and all, Interesting and very cool that you bring up this Dot. 2 Peter 1:21 (King James Version) 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost I believe scripture is a result of the Word or Christ or the Spirit within. Scripture is not the Word or Prophecy, according to that verse. 'came not in old time' It's a continual now. Always everything now. Being a part of this Moving Spirit is plenty for now. 'by the will of man' All our knowledge of all things will not make the Spirit move. It's all moving now, all at the same time. 'now is the day of salvation' Always will be. However one get's to 'see' and 'hear' and more. Whatever it is, is still there. 'holy men of God' Not by man's will at all. But as the Spirit's will makes one holy. 'spake' Not written. Though the writings can ignite the Holy Spirit in you. Then it's being spoken by the Holy Spirit. Moved by the Holy Spirit In the Spirit The Spirit came upon me. .... The Spirit has it's will and blows where it's listened. Like a trumpet or shout or whisper or flame or angel. @ And so.................................... Blindness? Something else has our attention. Or limit. Cause it's here and now..... All of it.....taken in small doses leads to wider eyes and opening ears. Or as a shout in a blink of an eye, our understanding is forever changed. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, I AM...whether we see it or not.

In the 90's lcm took sexual deviance to new levels of mental sickness. There was not one woman that was safe from him imo. He also, in his travels and SNS's would ask if anyone wanted to be on staff. This was on Video, so he would know who raised a hand. As far as STD's there were a number of methods to cover it up. Blame the individual with accusations, typical, or just get em fixed and go some more. Plenty more crap up their nastiness. I'm sure there was a plan for this, since it was lcm's primary mission. To 'get' as many as he desired. Depends on the person.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. -- 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. -- 1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. -- 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

It seems that there are 12 rites of passage. Perhaps more. Digging deep into the net and ignoring the bs. Reveals that for the most part these are not honored either. Neither in most religions and societies. Not honored as a rite and a godly part of life. Instead of posting the numerous pages I found. I'll just say the info is here and now, if we want to look in this direction. As well as many things that we have not been aware of.

poor guesswork wd you don't even know what you are talking about and even more, what I'm talking about your comments are irrelevant to the discussion making things up cause you just don't know what is happening here irritating? no, that's sort of funny you are so into yourself, how could I be irritated by you?

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Discou...amp;btnG=Search

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Discourse

You are adding to what I said again and miss the point to make your own case. Whatever you add to what I said does not address what I'm discussing.

For L with love