cman

And here is a problem with communication Geisha. While I will agree this to be in true in part, it certainly is not the whole. Cause without what is inside, that faith, then there is none. In fact the subjective and objective will meet. The inner faith and the faith that meets us. When these come together they are one. So the problem with communication is one pointing to something outside of themselves exclusively, and not willing to explore that which is within. Overall, and generally speaking, herein lies the problem of actual interaction and experiencing faith that is with substance within and all around us. If it's solely from an outside source that faith is based on, then all wars and murders and rapes and all vileness is justified. Justified by faith in an outside source alone, keeps one from getting their hands dirty.

even then it's carried forward and transformed in a moment maybe or however long we let it

thanks sirg, you have a way to flow it motivation is perhaps important or reason, the source of it cast your bread upon many waters not knowing where or how or what will wash up but it will, even quite surprisingly so or come flying by gotta look up too....:)

It's that darn predestination thing again Abigail. Perhaps partly in the mind. Plans are made and carried out. I don't believe the 'foreknowledge' ideas and theology. If it's possible to put these things together Now. The past, the future, the present. The 'we' of Genesis. To become one. As the mortals begin to put on immortality. And the corrupt are caught up into incorruptibility. Waking up to it actually. To the present realities. Let us make man in our image. Why? And if the eyes open, they shall see that they are just like 'we'. Ever think that we are headed beyond Genesis 1? Sacrifice for sin, because of, the beginning. Who really sinned in Genesis?

Well, of course there is a ton of scripture- http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?q...mp;qs_version=9 But thinking of sacrifice, would it be about, giving up something for something else? Sort of a simple view I think, with all that is implied and written. I don't think God sacrificed Jesus. Can't see that anywhere. But that Jesus sacrificed himself. Sacrificed the Christ. Reminds me of the Comforter being spoken of as another.

Posted by Abigail in the Hell thread. Excellent question Abigail! We might get an idea from many scriptures that speak of sacrifice. As well as reflecting on what really happened that day. I'll work on it, with some scripture and some good old sense. And post again

your view of scriptures is yours i suppose

Hi wb, If you are using the free skydrive account, I can recommend a few better online solutions to having files stored online. Free as well. To be honest, I tried ms skydrive and didn't like it. There are better alternatives. What are the basics of your needs? To access your files from any computer or share between your own computers. Or something else. Anyway skydrive is slow if all you can do is one file at a time. It probably switched from a standard upload interface to a java program to make it faster. But nothing can speed up uploads a lot, because they are usually slow. So what basically do you need files online for, without getting too personal ya know, but how do you want access them? Logging into a website or it can be done by emailing links to files. If it's a paid for account with skydrive, use their customer service. Although I will try to help if I can. It will work, skydrive or another, it's a matter of how they are set up to work.

You judge and miss the mark. How long will ignorance prevail? When will the anger end? Is that all there is to hold to? If you let go, will you fall? Or is there really something eternal. Peaceful, and willing to come to light. Will you hide behind the books forever? Will you show the Christ that this is the way? No. You will become as dead. The things that will melt away will astound. But only for a moment or two. The things that will appear will take your breath. Out of darkness, from invisible to enlightenment. And not our doing, but being undone, activation is witnessed, movement is seen.

Nice sirg, Spanning a lifetime with thousands of generations. Could be why so many years are recorded in earlier lives to see. A thousand years as one day. A century in an hour. A decade in a moment. The expanse between your words used is deep. Yet somehow we must move on and do. need the space and the grace seen when mercy has done it's work.....

Eventually each person will face themselves. And a power that can't be fooled. So the chaff will 'burn' to reveal the wheat. So does God 'send'? Or is it inevitably the way it is. I didn't ask to be born. But I was. Even so the spiritual birth happens. 'Must be born of water and spirit' The labor is still a part of it. And you have no say about, just like the first birth. Saved or being saved or not being saved. Most don't know wtf they are talking about.

It's funny..... Hi Abigail! Yes love one another. Love God. Can't separate the two. yup..... the way can be seen and done too simple maybe....

Cool Topic JeffSjo. Other interesting sayings and words come to mind as well. Showed me. Or shew in the kjv. Appeared is a good one, appear, saw, see, seen. I do believe 'vision' is not like a movie or something. But actually real and present. An opening. Vision seems to say different things, depending on the person I suppose.

Well, RumRunner, I don't fault anyone for not accepting the way a lot of these things are presented by people or scripture. All these factors are portrayed in a way that don't make sense. I wish I could paint the picture for you or anyone. But that's not my task to complete. Cause even though some who know, listen and speak, their words are to be heard by the ones listening, looking. By the ones ready, and no one will be excluded in the long run. Each person is at a different point in their lives I believe.

a certain rich man a certain beggar yeah..... perhaps we should look at what's at our gate and the sores

greek words mean nothing much to me used to, not anymore i suppose i understand what you are saying if i said i did understand, that would be arrogance i think and as i said, i didn't post about you personally so many sayings that are bound by a few words future return and ones present perception of heaven earth God Christ ourselves none of these words can stop what is now and bind the one willing to see it, feel it, experience it the future, the past, the present all rolled up into a continuing journey of discovery at one's own pace, unless quickened the sayings in the beginning was God all the way through Revelations is all here now fire, cool fire, hot fire the baptism of fire draws a flood of tears the bible i don't 'see' a lot of it but have do and will as it continues to unfold but neither the bible or the thousands of other scriptures can contain or explain or unfold the Christ in us all the Christ, the Spirit that is within and all around us to take scriptures and develop a belief is backwards but many begin there the scriptures themselves came from within many this must be seen, that which is the source cause certainly the results can be a blessing or curse depending on how they are seen, perspective from do the scriptures rule us or are we to seek the source scripture is not law, all of it though it is dealt with in that fashion including the new testament books and projected on to others to rule-enslavement rather then to speak by the spirit-unlimited freedom

What is hell or fire to you may not be to me.

I understand Garth's reasoning quite well. Just because it's written in a book does not make it so. Have you, Mark, and not to single you out personally, seen Jesus Christ, Christ or Jesus alive? Thw whole point of this, is to point out that some PEOPLE will burn in Hell forever. Well, I disagree on both points. 'Some people' and 'forever'. All PEOPLE will experience the fire of hell. But not forever. Nor is it something to wait for till after we die. In fact Hell can be visited at the spirit's will. As well as heaven, NOW. This 'people going to burn in hell forever' CRAP. Is getting boring, or will start yet another war. What is Hell? What is the lake of Fire? What is going to burn? NO DOUBT we all will experience this great moment. As well as NEED to to experience the 'heights' of heaven. So, I'm all for listening IF the one speaking has experience this. If not, it guess work, based on carnal, natural understanding of what is written. And not, as the scriptures declare, that the Spirit will show us. If one can shut up long enough to hear it. Nothing wrong with learning from books. But it's a far cry and a WAYYYYY Back Seat to LETTING the Spirit guide, lead and show the secrets that are hidden in plain sight.

wb, please download 'snapashot'. not the pro version http://www.nicekit.com/screen-capture/best-free-snapshot.htm after downloading, it is a zip file 1 either right click and click 'extract all' 2 or double click it to extract 3 'extract all' automatically will be displayed in the left task column using 1 2 or 3- following the steps provided do not change any portion of the steps a new folder will be created with snapashot in the same folder it was downloaded to open that folder no install required just double click 'snapashot' in the new folder there will be a resizeable box to put over what you are talking about make it so it includes all the tabs you mentioned and more if needed click 'save' scroll the file type at the bottom of that save window to 'png' click it click 'save' save it to where you can find it use add reply on this forum to upload the image fast reply does not have the upload option add some text like 'picture or screenshot it will not post without some text in the reply -anyway---- just want to see what you are seeing it's really simple to do just takes a lot of words to communicate what i'm saying here

If this is what it looks like- go to tools/internet options, tab settings restore default or however you want the options

http://gdbook.blogspot.com/2007/09/mans-se...or-meaning.html http://www.spacejock.com/yBook.html http://www.download.com/WinRAR/3000-2250_4-10007677.html

good idea, every doctrine was/is a wall a wall of imprisonment caged us, frightened us killing the spirit of freedom if those doctrines could be seen from outside the walls they would most certainly look different

Just look at yourselves. Oldiesman, Mike or whoever holds the class so dear. You don't trust anyone, not even yourselves! That is part of the fruit of the class. So you have to trust a class and the man behind it? WHY!? It's part of the class!! It rules out so much that nothing is left. You have to go by the class or nothing. It's designed that way. The Spirit is not like that. Or God or Christ or many things that have been blocked out by pfal. Just basic history has been thrown out, see sirg's posts. Man, take a good look at what you are not seeing.

the teachings promoted the actions of the teacher gave it a biblical look to ungodliness using the bible for self promotion it's the rule of pfal and it's intent a hate group with a class to back it up

Glad I took pfal, because of the amount of bible I became familiar with. Never did like the Nazi like structure of the whole thing though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi Just change some labels and you have pfal the only rule.