cman

Have you ever even read the bible? Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And somehow this is thought of as future? How long will one hold hell? when he sees it? Does it state when? who? or all at the same time? No. Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Besides the Lazarus parable. Of which it's beauty remains hidden

Yeah....hm If all we go by is the bible, we are limited greatly. Not that there isn't great stuff in it. But what did these people experience? Did the bible come first or what they lived?

I disagree. Especially in what determines the out come. Cause if it's just scripture there is no balance, a life is involved as well as others. The Holy Spirit can enlighten anyway it pleases, and not by scripture alone or even without it.. Even without scripture, words of God are spoken, present tense. It is not determined by the will of man when, how, or why. The scripture is Not the determining factor. Man teaching scripture is not the determining factor. The Lord is and his will. Not that a knowledge of what scripture says. Or the various meanings of the words. New meanings and intent and purpose. Just what is enlightenment? If you already have it figured out ?! Yes the scriptures can enlighten, but who's enlightening who? Is the scriptures needed? Are they a requirement for knowing? If so why would the Holy Spirit limit itself so? I agree in principle but not in the confines you set this in. There are meanings, not just one. Again this is Holy Spirit moving inside and around an individual and perhaps more who see other meanings and even one who can see more then one meaning. Concepts to some - reality to others. Big difference in actual enlightenment. Along with a growing realization of concepts. and then actually walking through that door for real.. Yes, there are many. nor anything wrong with either It's likely that the word 'hades' is more of knowing by being shown as you have said. And that which is being shown is 1st hand experience. Which takes one by surprise in it's depth, in it's living reality now, in it's truth that is here yet to be discovered. The discovery can be future I suppose, but it's here, alive and accessible.

the language of the Spirit, Mark not definitions and sentence structure if his thoughts are higher then ours then wouldn't his communication be also? sure plenty of things to learn with definitions is it possible that there are higher things being communicated not bound by books but unbound by the spirit not just what's on the surface but that which is hidden within meanings will change and change again much like parables, the hearer hears more as the bible is opened to us by the spirit and not by limited definitions of words

Never considered another language Mark? A new tongue within tongues beyond language. Though using it.. "their beliefs?" based on language alone? Even in Greek and Hebrew and English it exceeds it's boundaries.

The accepted use of a word is what blocks it's value imho. As each person differs, so does the 'well known' yet communication takes place. Not by wisdom of man's words. The greek language falls short.

the greeks knowledge of hell is in the definitions of words? rather bland and lacking the experience Dot, What are the first 3 seals to you? Granted, your mind may not be able to put into words what you see. Not important, because those will indeed be seen and heard again, from the fourth seal as well as the seven, yet with new eyes and ears. And not that the 4th negates the three nor the 7th the first.

7And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. the 4th seal who will come and see?

Placing things, including hell, in the future as well as many other good things, at one's own will is foolish and misleading.

what fall? no mention of any fall...........

Words like submit or submission seem to be hard words to handle. The word submit does not say obey. And obey is taken badly as well, most of the time. Submitting to one another, certainly doesn't mean obey each other. If we think logically and with common sense. It can be seen and done with GREAT FREEDOM realized. Doors of communication open and places to go are not limited. twi's submit and obey is not love or godly at all. never even close to knowing being part of each other not like-minded as we were taught but able to see with another persons eye don't even have to agree how about adding to what is seen when you quit fighting everyone and everything things are experienced differently

Wierwille wasn't the only one who thought she was an innkeeper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahab An interesting article. With some history.

Try POP peeper, Kimberly. http://www.poppeeper.com/ See if it meets your needs. I use it for yahoo and gmail. And it will leave the mail online as well. So it's a good backup too.

If you don't get an answer here, try this site and post in the appropriate forum. http://www.geekstogo.com/forum/forums.html Most likely to get a reply faster in your operating system forum. XP or whatever, rather then the email forum.

Cool, Nice site too. I like the times set aside for.....peace in the heart, by way of whatever it takes.

There is no greater office or position then a brother or sister. Those that do hold 'office' are special, but not in charge of anyone. And that office can be cut off, though still a brother. Cut off from hearing, seeing, feeling the one Holy Spirit. Sometimes people will see it, if they are looking. Ethical and moral laws that are a part of us, can deal with it. If out of control then the law of the land should be able to take it on. With David who was the law of the land, he faced his God honestly. 'take not thy Holy Spirit from me' Pleading to be able to still see straight. Cause it can be stopped. David knew what his office was. VPW did not.

you all having fun yet? there's at least a million things to consider if you want to try and figure it out on paper http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+kingdom+of+Go...ngdom+of+heaven Thanks for the tip RottieGrrrl, very cool. :)

Good stuff WordWolf. Galatians 1:12 kills the thing anyways. Getting to the point of why most everyone took the class. It's just different, speaking and hearing by the spirit, then the usual way of learning. There's something else going on. And each person will experience it soon enough. The pfal class is a man's shot at it, missing the mark. As well as however we tried while involved...mostly. In it's own time the spirit will meet spirit. Which is the same spirit. And has already for many. Yet still unnoticed, as a thief in the night. the Coming continues to progress For each person.

So it's all OUR doing, forget God, The Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit. They can't do nothing huh? THATS A MAJOR ERROR OF PFAL!!!!! Galatians 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Quite out of pfal's vision and teachings. -We were not taught about the revelation of Jesus Christ.- How these men including Jesus spoke by the Spirit was not covered. How they learned and how it happens is not in pfal.

Acts is a collection of circulated stories. With changes through time. As well as the gospels, and not just the 4 in kjv.

Will God judge Christ? The first and the last ADAM. The alpha and omega. The beginning and end-which is to say eternal? Does 'judgement' scare you? The first Adam was afraid. Not the last. 22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. The last put forth his hand and took ALSO of the tree of life. To Eat and live forever. Mankind is one as Christ is Adam. And Adam (mankind) is Christ. The judgment is closer then once though. And not as man judges but as one who is mankind. 16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. "and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life" Two trees, two being one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Axy923G54s

skewed is the perception of such a happening and even moreso the ones that were there including Peter and amen brother sirg cause no matter how it comes some will get it

I see a misunderstanding of death, dead and dieing. That which is most prominent in the bible, seems to be the most feared. Ye shall surely die. I think that's the idea for the eyes to open. Cause in that day they shall see.

If one wants to believe what is written without question then there is a flaw in using what God has already given us. To take what someone has written and hang on to it literally with out seeking it's wisdom and understanding rules out any input from the one that can show what is needed. They marveled at Jesus at an early age because of his QUESTIONS. I always think of- Proverbs 1 1The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; 2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding; 3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity; 4To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion. 5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. the words of the wise, and their dark sayings. Yeah Dark Sayings-have we even heard them yet? know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding These things must be recognized in order to see them. A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels To seek such is not bound in a book, but from the mouths of those living that are usually ignored. There is no amount of study that will give the answers, only background. And this must be ready for new light. No man need to teach it to you, but there words will inspire more or other understandings and wisdom. To hear the tongue of the spirit is life, and is neither bound by definitions, or books. If the surface is only seen then the deep things of God remain hidden. For the deep things of God are revealed by the Spirit.