cman

i suppose i should add that this is how i see it seems i killed the thread....

the phrase itself don't 'add-up' spiritually or in physics the sciences are the basic launching pad of all other learning subjects such as math or languages or art or music or, what was called civics, in my classes math is a product of science music and art are math based languages are a mix of science and math and really just life in motion spiritually one must go beyond science or math to understand you can etch in stone 1+1=2 but you can't stick the spirit in a box and say 'that's what it is' in fact it is quite the opposite, as we are acted upon, and not, as some suppose, in charge of God, or the Spirit, or figuring them out

when God and Satan are separated from yourself you are left with trying to see from a perspective that is distant from reality good point about fear in the presence of an 'angel of God' of god, is the very nature of god an angel is, god part of yourself being revealed as you are a son of god, of the very nature of god the individual and god can not be separated without the subjective, the objective is without any meaning at all so nice to see you share your life like you did Steve cause answers will not be in meanings and definitions of words in the scripture but in actual hands on, living life day by day have I feared god? You bet, more then once meaning afraid in it's very real sense not that god would harm me but, i am of god, and what can be revealed in me as well as with me, (which the 2 can not be separated) can be frightening to see fortunately, there is peace and many things in me that can keep me sane as well what one may fear another may rejoice in seeing depending on patience mainly, and perspective i try not to jump too fast when only seeing part, keeping in mind it's not the whole thing

as there is no fear in love there is no hell in heaven but there is heaven in hell and love in fear

When You do experience the fear of God, you will also experience the love. Becoming dead because of fear and new life in love. Like living Heaven and Hell at the same time. So it is with fear and love. To see the fullness of the measure of yourself. In Christ, in the spirit, the honesty and direct work of God. More then being startled, it will overpower, and open you up, naked in your eyes and God's. And it is a work of honor and respect and oneness. In the flesh not many can handle it for long. But the spirit is willing, at the right time. You can handle the fire that is sure to come, from inside and out, one, you are, with it all, and come out of it and into it at the Lord's will, without even the smell of smoke... Not seen, fully yet, but as close as the air we breath, and we are witness' because it is us, as powerful as spirit is the same. Inseparable, holy, and acceptable in sight and mind, of both God and us, as we always have been, are, and will be, one.

hm, no fear if you are not going into the fire.... but you are yeah JC gave his life for reasons one is, you can take the heat, and live he proved it

To fear God, to me, is like fearing surgery...sort of. You know it will help and fix a problem. Yet I still fear the procedure of it being done. Similar is the fear of God. And his 'surgery' on us. Knowing it will be ok, yet fearing the Procedures and Methods of what will be done....

let me say it another way, Roy cause no one can handle facing themselves alone as if we are ever alone anyway maybe about some things but certainly not all the secrets of the soul belong to God, even the hidden that are yet to be revealed in his time and turn darkness to light question- does forgiveness change anything? if your whole life was put to the flames in what way would it change? would you be the one deciding?

one or many perspectives unraveled into different thought i suppose and then done again what is 'living a lie'? cause if you change your mind or are changed about something is the former still true? even as JC says- I am the Truth what does that really mean some rule or standard or unchanging, boring same old crap?

Christ is the Fire. When you take hold of it, it will take hold of you. Good thing he's in charge of when to strike the match. And what is destroyed/purified by himself in you. Yeah, you watch, yourself, while being in the fire, yourself. Who can see themselves honestly as Christ does and handle it? Destroyed, yes, and raised again, the new man. The candles, set in you, waiting, for it's time to fire up. There's nothing else hot enough to be one with Christ. Except Christ himself. Love wins, there's more in you then you ever thought.

don't be hard on yourself there exc somethings we think we can't change but everything will change cause we can't do it ourselves it easy to say 'let go' but not so easy to do

You may notice Acts 17:11 puts a distinct difference between the 'word' and 'scripture'. There is a difference between direct connections and knowledge of scripture. Of course I think the scripture is important. And what it means to you could change with direct intervention of the divine. And not to leave out that which has been built by scripture. Though some may burn, be destroyed, and transform into a new born light. And more then one time.

Quiting cold turkey works for some but not all. You cold cut down and even break them in half, to take only half the dose. The real problem is in the mind, relying on what it does there. DWW is correct for changing the attitude of mind addiction. Having recently had hernia surgery I was on Vicodin more then a month. Interesting thing is, it relieves the pain by changing the path of the body/mind, and the way it perceives and registers the pain. There is no healing properties to pain pills except that you can move without pain. Which can be deceiving. Cut down over a period of time to avoid the withdrawals your body could have, they are real. Just as real is the mental addiction to taking pills to relieve pain, whether it does so or not. On another note, if you need it, don't stop using it. But use it according to the Doctor's orders. Usually no more the 1 or 2 every 4 to 6 hours. If more then that it's certainly more mental or the wrong drug. Being dependent on a pill for relief can also affect your psyche. Meaning you really don't want to be depending on it at all. Even if you need it. Don't let that get to your mind either. You are still you, try to relax more and not think about it so much. I know sometimes life is so boring one can think of nothing else but the relief drugs can do.

Interesting thoughts... You have to have an absent Christ to have a "Return". via - twi and others i suppose Not sure how the trinity plays it. I think they all think there will be an end of the whole world. Jesus Christ/Christ Jesus A Son of God, like us. No 'the' son of God. Never was. Jesus became one with the Spirit/God/Christ as we will. So what sets Jesus up so special? He did it quite openly. There is surely more to make him the captain of salvation. Who without fear took on devils/angels while he was still in the flesh. No small thing. Acquainted with death it says in Isaiah, while he was alive.

It's an individual journey that is spoken of. Some think it happens to everyone at the same time, the changes expressed in scriptures here and 1 Thess 4.

Can't really think of another way to put what has already been said in 1 Corin, it's all about change and exploring those changes. These things are and have been initiated by God from the beginning. In his time these will happen, we can get our minds out of 'stuck' in the same old thinking though. To let loose, undo our own grip on what we think, and be shown, and then to look at it without fear. I'm quite sure you can think of many ways to express your own transformations. Don't let limits of language stop you. Just throw it out there, someone will see it. When it comes from the heart, you know it's not you alone letting it go.

I blame God for everything, even the "devil". Not understanding why things are the way they are, or why some things happen, is more my case. Sometimes mad, and maybe disappointed with myself at times. And sometimes I want to look closer and sometimes I don't want to look, at why, what and reasons, or whatever factors that can be seen.

perhaps changing the terms used to describe these things would help give me some time and i can come up with some different views and perspectives i just got off work so i'm a bit tired as it comes i'll give and yeah, i don't buy the 'sinful nature' rap not even a little i think our nature deep down is godly there is lots more to dieing and rebirth then graveyard dead and life after that if we can see past that, 1 Corin 15 would say a lot more to us a lot of things die in us and are reborn while we still live now transition does not set well with me where as transform says it better i think there are some redeeming qualities in that which has died that come with us cause without that state before, then the state after could not occur rather simply put and basic, if you were not born you could not die our thoughts are enlightened, transformed, to the same sets of words, values, or quality of life in the throws of transforming, seeing what's next may be blurred but glimpses and real hope with substance will keep you gotta watch interpreting that which is not intended to be interpreted....yet not jumping the gun, without getting the bigger picture which keeps getting bigger

socks, your post reminds me of 1 Corinthians 15 i certainly see the description of "death" as transitional 1 Corinthians 15 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. i don't see death as a friend, but an enemy to be loved it's the only way to get past the fear of it....now i do like what you wrote there.... and yet still, what it is, to be 'destroyed', eludes many great minds

consider this, geisha, along with your relationship and experience along with this study that you would need to download to read, i think it's in my dropbox http://dl.dropbox.com/u/198326/The%20Feminine%20Gender%20of%20the%20Holy%20Spirit.pdf

been thinking before your post and moreso after interestingly, i had hernia surgery 3 months ago i had 2 hernias in the area, they meshed it which has been bothering me a lot, still pain discomfort burning off and on, more on but i have to change my attitude about it it - being relief still consulting the surgeon but i need to depend more on seeing the problem gone, then looking for the temporary relief, which they give sometimes really tired of having to call them focus of energy which takes some change of thought life change of perception of my world, life, work, etc... it's in me to be done, letting go of the old into new worlds not sure if that relates

like a transformation from one comfort to another of the same spirit but opening to another portion of it although i do see what you are saying i think like get ready to see things differently

O I believe there is a BIG connection there, socks. One set of verses comes to mind, among many. Where it says to die to live in Romans. There's lots of them in Romans, so take your pick, chapters 7 & 8 for instance.

Death is a prominent topic in the bible. Just look at how many times the subject comes up. Death, die, dead and other words are all over the place. Without death there is no need for God. and the bible says to love your enemies of which death is the greatest enemy, requiring the greatest love the last enemy to be destroyed, we ain't done with it yet defeating it will involve facing it as defeated when it comes but you will not be alone I have no "Universalist position" as you put it. Claiming that I have to do something to get eternal life is a contradiction of, we do not command god's will. Eternal life is happening, and all the will of the soul will be intact as the fire burns the chaff in every soul. There are no special clubs of those that have eternal life and those that do not.

Surely that is a comfort for you. Will another come when it dies? As Christ died so will the comforter which is seen. Not understanding death and destroy hinders seeing what will surely come. We found comfort in the scriptures. To a degree we all did. Another will come for each of us, that he may abide with you for ever. I do not put down or ignore the scriptures, they are the schoolmaster.