cman

One thing I've learned. We do not operate the Spirit. The Spirit operates in us to do his will. Not to control but to manifest and bear fruit. As we let this happen. A narrow entrance but very wide road. We cannot will the Spirit to do a darn thing. But we pray, meditate on things and the eyes can open. When the Lord is ready, he will come. With more every time. By his will, not ours. So...kind of deep there... but of course honest common sense is not to be underestimated.

No problem at all T-Bone. The subject of guidance by God is part of this thread, so that is what I was talking about. Which is really Listening to the Spirit within. I'm not one of those who asks which shoe to tie first, or all this other nonsense and messing with people's lives. As has been brought up. No one should be making your decisions for you. On this I believe we agree and your point, I reckon.

17And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. 20And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. Quite a few wills in play here, besides the one that knocked Paul blind. Too much light can be as blinding as darkness. As well as light being found in darkness.

No I'm not confused. One would need to be sensitive to the spirit of the Word to get it's will. And although we can look up chapter and verse, these are sometimes subject to interpretation. Which also would lead to the spirit showing what it says to do at that time. To do one thing the same way is not right every time the same situation happens. If it's God's will, wether moral or sovereign, one must take in to account that which he hears. That which he hears not only from the scripture being read or remembered, but also from others speaking by the spirit. Now mind this, I'm not saying that anyone would be telling one what to do. But that which is heard and received interprets by the spirit and then a clearer picture. So on simple things like honesty and the like, basically no problem. But we are faced with much more then this at times. A willingness to leave one's own will and let it merge with the spirit's will, is no small task. Especially if it goes against what one has believed and held to as truth. When the will of God is in your face, plain as day, a real decision can be made. Or not, because it will keep coming back around again. But I believe it's small steps, though they seem giant at the time.

T-Bone You are saying there is and are choices in this particular will-choosing deal, correct. There are some instances where there was not too many choices to choose. Paul for example, did not choose to have himself knocked to the ground and blinded. What do you think a person in Paul's situation today would have to face from those that were with him. Would they not send him to the hospital or sanitarium? Be careful what you wish for.

aahhh yes the haves and have nots the supposed fall of adam wonder why Jesus is adam also and the lord made coats of SKIN to cover adam and eve the soul the spirit the Christ

I think christianity has and does separate people from people both now and in their teachings of heaven and hell. For the most part they teach that some go to heaven and some go to hell. Bunch of Baloney. So what makes this New Testament so different. Why is that there were so many changes? Why would this man have to be beaten to near death then nailed to a tree and hang till he gave his life? Because of what Adam did? Does that really make sense? All of sins past present future gathered together in one moment of time. Taken on by one man. What is the thief going to steal kill and destroy? Our awareness of it. Much more our living reality of living without sin. O and someone comes along and says 'everyone sins'. I say 'yeah, take it up with the one who took them from me'. Never meant to be a reason to sin more but to be thankful that each day, each moment is new and endless possibilities. It was done and will be done in us for our good.

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If one thinks of these illustrations as the actions in the mind they take on a whole new perspective rather then pitting people against people which was the old testament, a shadow of the new and breaking up thoughts to rebuild them is not a bad idea just like breaking up religions isn't either as Danny, the one you can't see, pointed out

Faith-seeing something for real that is a sure promise of more Hope-is the promise of more

so if the wolf can get to the sheep the wolf came in the same way as Christ the thief and robber tries other ways some will say here is christ or there is christ when he's closer then your breath so all that came before where thiefs and robbers to steal kill and destroy is there a good reason for this? i am come, says christ, life and life more abundantly couldn't get that from those before christ and what does before him mean? how long has christ been around?

The thief comes by hearing apparently. So it must, as Christ comes from within our selves. What we believe, what the wolf scatters. Thoghts of one another, leading to action.

Yes, o Invisable one. There seems to be a 'separtist' tone to many of the writings of that time. Whenever there is an 'us and them' there is a problem with so many scriptures, that cannot be reconciled. No wonder there is so many 'cults' and 'religions'. Every one wants to go their own way with what was said. Jesus Christ died for the wolves too, they certainly will obtain that which is appointed them. And not to some endless hell of what God has in every soul, but that which remains forever. And the sheep, being sheep, follow what they 'hear' accordingly as they 'hear'. To think for one moment that we are really one body without a sense of each part as it operates. And to see that there is a purpose for everything under the sun. There is only one Lord, there is no other.

Seems to me it's about those who came, and then there's the sheep that didn't hear them.

Well, I believe John 16 comes in many perspectives and his will is obvious. honesty love unselfish giving sticking to ones word and other things of moral character these things are told us in many ways sometimes just right out of the blue one can have a thought to do something godly and do it without thinking it is man attributes great things to himself rather then God the author of all things so i'm not a fanatic on verbal revelation it comes in many ways and forms and I also believe that much can be gained by listening closely to what someone else says and make your decisions based on reasoning, godly reasoning and wisdom

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. It's interesting that he says "All" that ever came before me. And yes, Danny, the remote context of 'your father the devil' is quite interesting too. How was that the devil 'fathered these people who supposedly taught the Law.

No problem T-Bone. I understand. Soon enough we will all see a lot more clearly. Do you see what I'm saying about how this author is cutting off ways of hearing from God? Perhaps unintentionally. You know it does remind me of how vp said about 'everyone has a little spark of the divine'. And he was saying it was wrong, but it's more right then he knew I believe.

I agree T-Bone. I do wish twi and vpw teachings would not be compared to what i'm trying to communicate. It hinders the message greatly imo. And i don't think like them anymore. They didn't know a lot of things that they thought they knew. But that would be another thread.

And what I mean by this is not to do things without good reasoning, but that more understanding and wisdom comes from what we have reasoned to do. I don't mean to do things without thinking. Thought I'd add that just in case it was taken that way.

T-bone, I don't mean that one can't go beyond what one is taught. Although we do need taught. A lot of things are learned in the doing of them or afterwards. Critical thinking and creative thinking are a superb function of the brain. Bringing to light that which has been hidden in the brain. I'm thinking even beyond creative and critical thinking. Because it's the wisdom that confounds the wise, when it comes to spiritual matters. And not to discard this thinking but to flow along with it. That which only the Spirit can show you is what can be obscured by critical and creative thinking also I believe. But again I say that it will also flow with it. Out of the belly shall flow rivers of living water. This is the Word flowing from the mouth of one speaking by the Spirit. And it's not to undermine critical and creative thinking. To the pure all things are pure. So we look for that pureness of thought. No matter how it comes. And no matter how it comes it is that which is working in you that 'sees' what is meant, the understanding and wisdom, and the things not thought of before. It all comes from within the one thinking. Others can just jolt or bring to mind different things.

John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.It is taught in the scriptures. Just because one can't see it, that don't mean it isn't there. And he furthers his position with fear of the "DEVIL". He sites no examples. I on the other hand have witnessed revelation and inspiration in action and it opens the eyes and ears to the scriptures, not cuts them off. And through fear of this devil he boxes in that which was never designed to be limited. He is making a broad stroke of condemning any other words besides what the scriptures literally say. A big mistake, because how can one learn without being taught either directly or by another by the Holy Spirit. What are we supposed to do, just go by what is written and definitions and texts? That route didn't work in The Way and it won't work in life. We must listen to people who may seem to be speaking by the spirit. Or just give them a bible and concordance and walk away. Which way do you think worked in Acts? Speaking the Word by revelation and inspiration or definitions of words? Or some other method of learning that limits itself to books. Not that books are not useful, but they are limiting. Whereas the Living Epistle of the heart is not. Adding this phrase in the first section I quoted is to make those who speak look bad.- Making it sound as if the person is more important either to others or in the eyes of the one who speaks by the spirit of God.

When someone says something is not true. Then that something came from somewhere. Finding the source of what is called a lie will reveal more about what has been labeled a lie. Then you can determine the truth with more info. Finding more sources will reveal even more info. As far as being specific about what you said to be specific about. It's in this persons writings, what he says doesn't happen. Actually does, but not with the twist he gives it. That's about it, I can't think for anyone else. Nor am I saying that anyone is not thinking. Things can be seen in many places, not considered before. So I'll just leave it at that because I don't know how to put it better.

I'm not trying to negate what this fellow believes. Just point out that he is putting limits on what can be received. Which a lot of people do. I have no problem with that. But personally I won't limit what can be received from any direction. At least I try not to. Lies will eventually reveal truth. So they don't scare me any. What I believe changes as I learn more. So I don't live in a limited space of thought. My comments are not meant to steer away but look closer.

let the microsoft site update your machine i wouldn't try to save anything from an infected system except for things you have to