cman

I like that Danny. Got anymore, i'm ready.... pm if necessary

Lindy, Why side track into religion? Why not look for proof yourself? I asked 'what is a believer' because that is not specific. You are talking about people you don't know. Grouping and labeling them with a vague 'standard meaning'. Making an us vs them case. There is only 'us'. We are them.

Or it's something bigger then you have considered.

You don't want to know what I'm talking about Geo. Which is fine with me.

I don't have a standard meaning. Yours is those that have religious faith. I suppose that is what you believe a believer is. Only one definition? Not hardly. Religious? what is that? Faith? what is that? Very broad terms and limiting that which is unlimited. If what it means is limited in your thinking.

What is a believer lindy?

Yeah, well I'm talking and you seem to have the same attitude towards my words as any 'old' words. What does devotion have to do with anything, except your apparently trying to put words and ideas in place of what I and others have said. And want to change their intended meaning to suit yourself, instead of trying to see what the other person is saying. Just how would you like God to speak to you George? And this 'flakey bunch of yarns' just might be here.

We will all change, like it or not.

Well, lindy believe what you like. I'm all for it. You don't see what I said I think. You have to want to prove it to yourself I suppose. What's wrong with a little effort? And you don't know what Paul was thinking. That is unlikely to happen at this time. But you just never know till it's right in your face.

Ok, an example would be Paul on the road getting knocked off his horse. I usually use and like this example because there is so much in it. Though I don't think it's the "standard" of everything. If we are to acted upon by the Holy Spirit, then what is it that initiats this action by something other then ourselves? It is not us who operate the spirit, it is the spirit operating in us. Can you see that difference? To will and do of his good pleasure is Him working in us. The glory that will be revealed, will be revealed in us. Not by our doing but by His doing. So the question could be. What or How do things happen to get this in action? The action of the spirit. Humbleness, meekness, courage, love..... All these qualities are in us and will happen, if we let them. It's not something you do, it's something you don't do. When one learns to quit fighting everything and let these things come, it is a brighter day. And yes I know there are good and bad times. But inside, deep inside this is always there. Like a seed ready to sprout. Either there is Christ in us or there isn't. It is not created from outside of ourselves and put in us. It's already there. In which we all share of it. I of course believe we all have that seed. However it sprouts and matures is not our call. It will come when it is ready, no sooner, no later. Corinthians talks about it somewhere...I'm at work or I'd post it. So I don't think it's a thing to worry about, just investigate. Investigate what it is we need to let go of and let happen. So some believe one thing and some another. The problem is thinking we see it all. That's quite impossible, it is unlimited, from life here, through eternity.

Selfless would be taking your self out of the picture. Hence self-less. Motivated by a cause or will that would benefit others, not your self. So godly selfless motives. The "what's in it for me" is not there. The motives come from a source other then yourself. Didn't say anything about believing or doing. Take yourself out, and see what else just might be around. Maybe a lot of us don't see too many people like that. But they are here and there.

so possibly some godly, selfless motives lindy?

whatever one believes is not a requirement of the scriptures. For myself, I prove things to myself, and am not compelled to try to convince anyone of what I have proved to myself. I also am aware that what I have proved to myself can be disproved by me. In other words I decide. Not someone else. Nor do I have to explain a thing. Now if I talk of that which I believe that does not mean I'm trying to convince anyone. Take it or leave it, your choice, not mine. Not judging, condemning or any such thing like that, if it's received or not even considered. No matter, what ever someone else believes, I can learn from also. We are to prove all things. Well all things that come my way I reckon. And hold fast to the Good. I think this is freedom and unlimited learning adventures. And wether or not anyone agrees with me is not so bad. Though it is nice when people do agree on things and can even develop them further. So that's my thoughts today anyway...... Cause whatever is true and real...IS..... What can I do about it? Don't know... But continuing to let Life unfold as best I can. Trusting that the Lord will direct my way. Rock on....

Well said bliss, seems to me that some who do not want to believe that which is believable come up with quite the offense. I like what you said about seeing and believing earlier in this thread. There is more then one way to see things, and just as real. Believing without seeing is something that just flows from within, a gut feeling, intuition, the spirit moving within. Call it whatever, but it happens and it happens a lot.

control panel-sound-choose output

Everyone can be right having only part. But perhaps thinking they have the whole thing. Or aware that it is only part of truth. Not the idea that 'I' or 'We' have the whole truth. Which makes a 'them'. So, us and them, religion and not truth. There is only 'us' or 'we'. In truth.

Facts can be spoken by the one that knows them. The hearer may not believe or trust the facts. So there is a choice. Either investigate the facts as stated or not. Inquiring and getting results requires a mind that will listen. A mind that will hear without bias, which is relying on what you think you know. To let go of one's perspective to see another is not a problem. One can always return to it, or return to it with a greater understanding of his own as well as anothers perspective. Why are so many so afraid of seeking. Seeking means it's not found yet. Would that which is found be something that you could not handle? Something that might be 'different' and frightening at first glance? Or could it be absorbed and realized and seen without harm? Things are different the deeper it's looked into. And if it's Godly it will not take over. But a mutual movement of Life and Spirit. Humbleness is the door. Courage is the key. Meekness is the wisdom.

I don't think the God-head is anything like a head God. We are acted upon by that which is spiritual, dead or alive. What becomes is always equal to what we are and have already. There is no chain of command spiritually, no orders given. Being led or doing from the heart is God and Christ. There is freedom, but abusing it will put one where he has by whatever it is. In this mortal life here on earth any way....... In the heavens there is no wrong turn. To the pure all things are pure. And yes I believe it can be done before we die.

Truth is ever growing and changing and moving within. Truth can be found in anything. If we cannot change with the truth then we get stuck within ourselves. And we are limiting that which is constantly revealing more and more truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egstHWxTYBI...ted&search=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBibl...q=understanding

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBibl...amp;language=en

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. And if one receives a greater understanding does not that which was held to before loose it's life? The common perspectives are people dieing and being destroyed. Why is this so wanted in a lot of christianity? Are we not tired of the elitist mindset? Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. By the grace of God, and the Hand of Christ, forgiveness is his vengeance.

Every one will change and continue to change. This much is certain. A 'God' that kills as in eliminating forever any life existance does not exist. Such is the ignorance and scriptural racism that exists today in many minds. 'Free Will' is not understood at all in most critical thinking. Just how does one think that people came into being. It's so big and done that nothing will stop life. Not even death.

T&O That's the understatement of the centuries!!!! On every subject in your post! Seems to me they got it really screwed up. Don't know judgement, death, dieing, living. You name it. Gotta get out of the ditch when you see your in it. Could be a whole different understanding entirely!