Javajivey

Okay, I have to know how old that video is. Because the music is sooo 80s and sooo dorky, and their movements are so robotic! Then again the girls' dresses so so infernally long maybe it's from the 90s? Any info?

It sure is a 'learned helplessness.' It is so convenient and cozy to be in a cult. Instant friends, no need to set goals or be responsible for your life's valuable time, no need to check your soul to find out what YOU really believe...just nod your head and smile... The fact that eventually your life's schedule and time and goals, if you had any, are gone and replaced by TWI, is a really important point. Yes, maybe they will continue to see what it's like 'outside' through me and others and that will help them. Plus, in my own experience, like you, it was just God working in me to open my eyes to what was really happening. God knows when you can handle light and how much you can handle at a time, too. What got to me was a combination of the local leader here being intensely nasty to a friend of mine by taking sides in her divorce, plus getting talked down to all the time as if I was someone's sweet stupid pet, rather than a responsible adult woman with a good brain and MS degree. Plus a couple other things. Anyway, it took me three years after I left to go through what I called 'cult recovery.' During that time I went to no fellowship or church. I just kept reading my Bible and I dealt with all the stuff I had shoved in the corner emotionally for so long...But God is so good. When he heals, he heals.

You all are awesome. It is great to hear your ideas in this discussion! Motivation for my friends' returning is a great question. I already figured it was a need to belong, but it also is just a case of convenience...The timing was such that very soon after they gave up on the previous guy, along came her husband's bro, who has been with TWI for years. I had to cringe when she said how "nice" it was that of all things, a TWI couple drove all the way down from some other town to escort them to their first fellowship. Reminded me of how we were taught to take care of "fruit" and get them to the meetings however possible...!!! Anyhoo, the us-versus-them notion is definitely involved, as is the need to be right, I guess. My friend did go to some kind of daytime women's group meeting at a local church a few years ago, but aside from that there has been no search on their part for churches, though I urged it. Another reason might be guilt (or how to alleviate it). They had toyed with leaving Mr. Charlatan Man a few years ago and felt too guilty to do it at that point...I would assume TWI gives them a real good substitute fellowship, in a fast and convenient and guilt-free way. The idea of the "perfect fellowship" also is still part of their thinking. The lure of the fantasy is still definitely here -- more than once she remarked how great VP was; the last time even after I noted that he plagarized material from Kenyon. Once you figure out the reasons they are attracted to TWI, how can you talk them out of them, though? Another topic. Lack of critical thinking skills? Amen, bro, amen. Over the years I have watched the two of them get led around like a couple of sheep. It hurts really bad to see people you love get ripped off monetarily, emotionally, and spiritually because they are flaky. (Irony of ironies, just last month I urged her to get a copy of "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. Oh, well.) Another person who wrote back on this topic mentioned that she did not hang with her friend (who went to TWI) anymore. Does anybody? It's been a good 14 year friendship, for the most part. Hard to just give up...

Newbieon the site? I was on this site a couple years ago..I first took the class in 1979 and did WOW the year VP died. Stopped going to TWI in 1987 and hung out until 1996 with an offshoot here in town. Have been free since 1996. Golly THANK YOU all for your responses. Lots for me to think about! In no particular order, here are some answers to your questions: Did my friend and her hubby know the worst of TWI junk? Nope. Do they have a need to belong, yes. There was this charlatan/manipulative guy in their town who they fellowshiped with (not TWI but offshoot) for several years. They finally soured on him (duh, I tried to tell her for years!) after they got into a disastrous "own a business" thing with him. One of you really pegged it when you said TWI never realy left them. Over the years, some of the Wayspeak she still used used to drive me nuts. Usually I kept my mouth shut but in the same phone call wherein she announced their new return to TWI, I stopped her when she said "out in the world." I said "Where are you now?" "Oh at home." "No,I mean where are you??" She finally got my point, but then she said "You know what I mean, away from the safety and security of your home....working out there..." I wanted to gag. THat mentality of us-versus-them!!! I will suggest they go to the web site, and to try and visit HQ. They live too far away to just drive over to HQ quickly, but they can check out the site. I take it there is some amusing stuff on there! THe fact that the web site is NOT transparent, is NOT open to public comment or response and is NOT even selling this "great" books is enough for me. Unfortunately I doubit it's enough for them... Well I am a very glad you all don't mind assisting/listening to this.

I got back on this site (was on a couple years ago or so, briefly) to get some advice, or info, or whatever. I am hoping I am not the only ex-Way person who has pals who also are ex-Wayfolk...One very close friend of mine and her hubby live a few states away from me. They left the ministry back in the early 90s. This past week she said the both of them had decided to start going to a Twig and are taking the class again. She was all excited. She said that the Way is all better now and it's not like it used to be, with leaders acting like they are God and that everybody in her fellowship is so nice. If anyone in this here cafe has any advice for me, I sure would appreciate it. Is there a book or a site I can send her to? I went on the Way site and it's just like it was a few years ago, with zero opportunity for anyone visiting to send a message, much less even buy a book. (Why show people those books and then not sell them?) All I know to do is keep loving them and keep speaking the truth in love. But I am just kindof angry about it all right now. THanks! ANd also please excuse me if this site is not for advice or assistance.

PBS television did an absolutely awesome documentary as part of its American Experience series about the entire story, from Jim Jones' first getting followers all the way to the mass suicides. It has tons of footage from those days, and many interviews. The most chilling part of the story for me was the end, when they intered former followers, asking them if they still thought the group was a good idea. A few of them said yeah. See this link for more info. I don't know how the MSNBC documentary will stack up to the PBS show...to be honest, I don't see how anything can beat this PBS version. http://www.pbs.org/previews/amex-jonestown/

Hi, Motherof2, I'm new to this site also; been around a week or so. I left TWI in 89 but returned to a group of ex-TWI people here that was not run very differently. I left them 7 years later. Took 3 years off to do my own personal "cult recovery" time, reading my Bible, figuring out what was true and what was not. Since 1999 I have gone to a non-denominational church. One of the previous posters (or more) mentioned that at least for us, getting to know Jesus Christ as our Lord was a big step. TWI did not let the Lord Jesus be the head of the church. There is great peace and comfort in finally realizing that "He that cometh to me will I in no wise cast out." (Sorry if I quoted that slightly off.) ANyway, my point is, churches are good if they glorify Him as Lord. He is a lot more real to me than he used to be. Like other previous writers, I also sortof gloss over the "God in three persons" bit when we sing it at church. And this time of year I brace myself to hear the story about how God in Human Flesh was born. Aarrgh. Other than that, I like my church because there are lots of other Christians there who I can love and who love me. ANd that is what it's all about. Being mean to people like your relatives are is not love. Although we were taught to love in TWI, all we saw in example was leaders who ruled by fear and intimidation, who set themselves above others in the body of Christ, etc....Not love.

I saw it soon after it came out last winter with a Jew who explained a few points to me...For example, in the end, the two men did not eat together, for one was orthodox and the other was not. The point about violence begetting violence was the main point of the movie. I had a more negative view of it than you did, though, in that I don't think any of it was justified, even if it was for the sake of one's country. Why? Because violence begets violence. Overall it was definitely worth watching. Very memorable scenes, and it's been a year since I saw it, so that says something. The graphic killings made a point.