ex10

Sheesh, I'm dying to know who in my corps flew to LEAD. Cripes! I think I want to beat him up. :D-->

Ditto, Dot.

Yes.

Geeze, sis ex, I totally understand.

Early, you actually make a good point. For many years, while involved with TWI nobody was allowed to talk about these things, neither in public or even privately really. Even after TWI imploded, there weren't many people in my life who knew VPW like I did, that I could sort things out with in my own mind. So many people involved with TWI never got a chance to see VP up close and personal. Even later corps people didn't really get a chance to talk or spend time with him. I wrestled for years wondering how the VPW I knew and admired, who was so kind to me, be the same monster he was to others. Yet I witnessed plenty that made me wonder..... So this forum has really helped me straighten things out in my own mind. I understand how people who really didn't spend time around him, and just saw him as the great teacher and MOG could have trouble with these things. Yet, the truth has been spoken here. I think it's important to share what we saw and experienced. I know I'll never idolize anyone again, and excuse their abuses for the sake of "the great word they preach." Sigh.... After all, talk is cheap, or rather preaching and teaching is cheap. It's how someone lives that really counts. Do they live what they believe? or not? VP failed that test miserably. He was a big hypocrite, plain and simple. But the thing that really gets me going is that HE KNEW BETTER. Yet he chose to do evil instead of good. He could have been a much better man. As always, just my humble opinion.

Yeah Lightside, Good points. And another interesting thing is that the bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone, the foundation, the rock, etc. VP claimed he built "his ministry," on the "rightly-divided Word." Ahem, excuse me, but nothing in the bible, specifically the gospels or church epistles, talks about the bible being the foundation, etc. It is always the Living Word, The Word Made Flesh, Jesus Christ. I think this is why TWI fell apart when VP died. It was all about VPW, and his particular assortment of teachings. That's why it has crumbled. LCM wrote a book called "VP and Me." I think it's obvious that Jesus Christ was not his Lord, VP was.

Well the scary thing is, Dot, that some of them STILL hold "leadership positions" in TWI. Others are running offshoot "ministries," and are still revered as great MOGs. John Lynn also publicly confessed his part in the whole thing and asked for forgiveness from those he hurt. A brave thing to do, I think.

Which brings us to another point..... VPW and LCM were not the only "players" in the secret sex game. There were MANY other men, leaders, as well as women, who perpetrated the whole thing. VP defintely had his share of "enablers." I think many of the people who read this forum may think that it was only LCM, or maybe only LCM and VP who were serial adulterers and abusers. And that just ain't true. There were many others involved in taking advantage of their "position." What about them? Are they excused? like VP is by his apologists?

Yeah, Al, my dad would've kicked VP's butt from here to kingdom come, if he had messed with me. And I guarantee ya, I would've told Dad. ;)-->

Steve, and others are correct in saying that certain females were "targeted" and others weren't. I don't want to reveal too much personal info here. But, I was around VPW some. Not as much as others, but he knew me by name, knew my parents, and other family members. I worked teacher's room, head table, back stage, and had personal conversations with VPW many times. He never said or did anything remotely "inappropriate" in my presence. I have found out, by others "in the know," that I was labelled "off limits." I think the reasons for this are many, but one being I had too many family members involved in TWI who were of my parents generation. If anybody messed with me, not just VPW, but others as well, the whole sordid underbelly of TWI would be exposed. He couldn't take a chance on me. I think he kept me around "on purpose" because I was innocent. I was good "cover." And I'm not the only one that was "used" in this way. I feel really betrayed by VP. No, he didn't molest me, but he used me just the same. :(--> Was it intentional? I don't know, but it doesn't matter. The fact is, it happened. VPW was a liar and a fraud, who led a double life, who went to great lengths to keep it a secret from the masses. And I think even his "body of teachings" were used to rationalize his actions and MOG status and keep up his cover. I know this is hard to believe and accept for some, who didn't have the same experiences, but it's the truth. And too sad for words.....

I have purposely tried to stay away from this thread, but, I guess I'm giving in to temptation here. VPW was/is one of the most sick and twisted people I've ever known in my life. The damage he did to so many lives is almost unfathomable. If anybody really truly believes that he was the cause of any "good" that came out of his organization, after knowing about the pure evil and havoc he wreaked in the lives of innocent congregants, well, I feel very sorry for you. You obviously need a different saviour.

OK, I confess. I got a foot massager for Christmas from my youngest. He is so sweet and thoughtful, and of course, gadget crazy like his dad. I have to admit that it feels pretty good on my feet. We have all tile floors downstairs, laid on a concrete slab. And my feet HURT at the end of the day. Anyone else?

Yup, alfie, the girl you speak of was a roommate of mine for awhile. Her eyes turned from pink to blue, and she was able to see some, which had not been possible before.

Oh geeze, I'll apologize for the sidetrack ahead of time...sorry. But VP, LCM, and company knew that the whole athletes thing was a humongous stretch, but VP in particular felt that it was ok to make the leap, because he was after all "the great teacher." He was fishing for ammo to back up his "claim," that the military terms were "athletic." When he didn't get it, he didn't change his teaching, he went forward with it anyway. And then LCM took it to new heights....or depths, depending oh how you look at it. --> Could it be that this "teaching" and the liberties taken with the scriptures set the stage for LCM's um, stranger teachings of the 90's? that aren't found anywhere in the bible?

oh ok, Lightside. That letter. I think Tom Re**** signed it too.

I have to second Raf's sentiments. I've never heard the marriage is only for Christians thing, and I've never been sent any form to sign to be a "fellowship coordinator." Here where we live, there is "no pressure" as Raf said. We are involved in a church, and receive CES materials, and well as things from "other ministries." I like what CES is doing, and the people involved, but I live rather far away from most functions. Occasionally, we do something here in my neck of the woods, and it has always been a "blessing." I don't really have an opinion as far as the name change goes. Sounds ok to me. I love what CES has done to correct the error of waythink. I'm grateful for that.

Lightside, Do you know when this happened? I'm just wondering what the time frame was...

CW Been thinking about your initial question, and I think my experience with TWI was pretty opposite than yours. And here's why.....Although I too was a teen when I got involved, shortly after I "took the class," all my siblings as well as my parents did too. Then Grandma and aunts and uncles and cousins "took PFAL." Well, my parents and family members of their generation were in their late 30's to early 40's, and I think Grandma was 80 when she took PFAL. Nobody really butted into their lives too much as far as "leadership" went. I guess because they were older, more mature, and established in life. And even though I went in the Way Corps and all that, my family connections were stronger than any other bonds in TWI. Since most of the people I loved and cared about were just "lowly twiggies," I think I related to their needs and concerns more than whatever mandate was issued from the Vatican, oops I mean HQ. And too, I married someone as, did my brother, whose entire family was in TWI as well, grandmas included. So we had this huge network of people who we were related to and connected with, who weren't too interested in the "politics of the ministry," they just liked going to a home bible study and praying and reading the bible with other people and stuff. A novel idea for my humongous Roman Catholic family. So our circumstances were radically different I think, which led us to have really different experiences in the way. I still think it was a cult, though because of it being all about VPW instead of God or Jesus. Hope you have the happiest of holidays, CW.

diaz and out, You guys are so right. Could it be that's why TWI fell apart when VP died?

Marked and Avoided Funny, that you ask the question. I've been wondering if there is anything remotely Christian about the TWI and its teachings. I honestly believe that if one fully ascribes to Wierwille's Theology, it actually prevents one from being a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. As always, just my humble opinion.

PS I guess I should add that last night we had our "small group" fellowship with the church. There are 5 couples in our group with 13 and a half kids ranging in ages from newborn to 16. We had a pot luck dinner which included turkey and all the trimmings, and homemade cheesecake for dessert. After we all ate, we played Cranium, and for the first time in the history of our small group, the men beat the women. (just barely) We'll get our revenge, don't worry. There is another couple in our small group that is exwaycorps like us. The other three couples are "nver been way." We didn't really know the other ex couple while in, but met them at church. Go figure. We had a blast last night, and do every time we get together, twice a month. Yes, Virginia, there is life after TWI, in church.

Well, I just got home from church, and I must say it was a fabulous service. Our family sat with my mom and my brother and his family. Then afterwards, we had coffee in the atrium with some friends, (fellow exwayfers ) no less. Later this afternoon, family and friends are coming over to eat the ducks and geese another brother shot early this morning. I'm telling ya, the "fellowship and friendship" we've found at our church puts just about any "twig" we ever attended to shame. (White Dove, the Kansas years not included. :)--> ) Not to mention the excellent message preached which had to do with the gift of Jesus Christ and the "repentence" ie ability to change, he brought. I'm very thankful to have wonderful, caring, loving people to worship along side of. So I guess my encouragement, would be to "try Church." It's not the pit of screaming devils that TWI painted it to be. Peace and Joy to you and yours.

Yeah, Sudo, I know of whom you speak..... I have tried to have conversations with them in the past, when all the stuff was coming down in the 80's as well as more recently, but unfortunately.....well, you know. But you are right, they are wonderful people. That's why it's so tragic that they keep their blinders on .....

Hi Tom Thanks for the comments. Just to let you know, I wasn't "upset" by any of your posts, I just didn't understand where you are coming from. And honestly, I probably still don't. :(--> But that's ok. We all have different perspectives. It simply seemed to me that you were "correcting" some of the posters, moi included, who think differently than you do. I asked you what I did because I wanted to know if I was misunderstanding what you were trying to say. Which would not be the first time, I assure you. :)--> I'm really not into everybody agreeing on everything around here, simply because that's not real life. And I'm still interested in shedding the protective armour of false doctrine that once kept me "in the dark." Sometimes following Jesus as my Lord leads me into places I'd rather not go. Those are the times that I "remember the cross." And yeah, I understand about the joy etc. in the future and am eagerly looking forward to the day when our redemtion is complete. But in the meantime, I live in a fallen world, full of sin and suffering and I need help dealing with it in the here and now. As wonderful as the ressurection and return are, they lose their meaning without the suffering and endurance of the cross. You can't have one, without the other. As always, just my opinion.

aw, thanks white dove. I do feel better.