ex10

Actually Sir Guess, you bring up a good point. The intimacy of the marriage relationship is to be an example of the "union" between Christ and his church. Which is made possible by the holy spirit. Jesus Christ gives us eternal life, and the holy spirit also is the down payment of the eternal life he gives. I belong to him, he is mine and I am his. Just like in an intimate relationship, marriage in particular, we are one. I'm thinking out loud too, here. ;)--> [This message was edited by ex10 on February 17, 2004 at 18:30.]

wayfner, Here's the way I think of it. Jesus sent us the Comforter, the holy spirit. And it's the holy spirit that is in us that enables us to have a relationship with Jesus. He is Lord and Saviour and creating in me a new man that is conformed to his character. Jesus is doing the work in me, in my "inner man." That's why it's called "Christ in you the hope of glory." It's a figure to represented the relationship we have with him as Lord, and what he is doing in us. I know this is a stretch if anyone has a waybrain hangover. And Wayfer, check your pt. It's Jesus that is the head of the body, his church, who is at work within us to fulfill his will in the church. God gave him this position, because of his perfect obedience, and fulfillment of His (God's) will. We have to be able to have a working relationship with Jesus Christ and allow him to transform us, if we are going to be the person he wants us to be. The "power of the holy spirit" is the means by which he can do that. And that's how the holy spirit glorifies Jesus Christ. And Wayfer, I'm not a trinitarian, but am not afraid to see Jesus as the One whom God has highly exalted, given a name above every name, etc. When we honor Jesus Christ, and exalt him as our Lord, we are doing what God wants us to do! It was his idea! Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now. :)--> [This message was edited by ex10 on February 17, 2004 at 14:31.]

Well, George, I just have to say it. Christians can see in color, too. Maybe it's not "Christian Theology" that's so confining.... Maybe it's just our own perspective and prejudices that box us in so. :D-->

Dear wackster, I hope you had the bestest of days!

Dear sweet, precious Kit I wish you the happiest and most special of days ever! I'd love to be able to bake you a cake, and be there when you make your wish, and blow out the candles! But thoughts and prayers go a long way...

wow, Lightside I wish I could go to your fellowship. ;)--> Check your private topics.

PS I cry during movies, too. I'm gonna take a new box of kleenex with me when I go see Mel Gibson's new movie.

Cool Wayfer, I love that song too. I like to play it in the car while I'm driving. In fact, the whole CD, City on a Hill, is one of my favs. Third Day is coming here in May, and doing an outdoor concert. I can't wait!! ;)--> Another thing I thought of....in the Catholic church, people, genuflect, kneel, make the sign of the cross, during worship and nobody thinks anything of it, because it's their tradition. Lotza times, while worshipping, or "being ministered to" people respond emotionally by crying. Sometimes the tears just flow. I think it's a release for people. God created us physically to cry and shed tears to express deep emotion. It's actually physically cleansing to cry. He knew in his wisdom that we needed physical ways to release great emotion. Some people get uptight with that, but I think it's more of a cultural prohibition than anything else. It's harder for men than women, cause they're taught that men don't cry, especially not in public. I always cry at weddings and funerals, the birth of babies, and sometimes at church. ;)--> I'm glad I'm female, so I don't have to be embarrassed. :D-->

WB, Not only that, but in a more contemporary service, you don't have to hold a prayer book or hymnal to follow along, so we're freer to express ourselves during worship. :)--> I've had exwayfers tell me that they have a problem with physical expressions of worship. No wonder some people got upset when David danced naked before the Lord. They thought it wasn't dignified enough for the king to be acting like that. Hmmm.....

Greek, Definitely. Function over form is the emphasis I think. And yes, the holy spirit leads us into a relationship of submission and obedience to Jesus Christ. But I think there's more, as far as worship goes. ;)--> Sometimes our response to the working of the holy spirit can be quite moving and emotional, and may include many expressions by us. But I do have a problem with the "slain in the spirit" thing, and I don't think it's just because I was raised Catholic. I think it's because our response is totally up to us, not out of our control. Good points, Abigail. Even though the holy spirit is "one size fits all" in a way, we all wear it differently. :)--> Lightside, I bet Jesus was there, too. :D-->

Thanks for the suggestion, Evan, but I'm content with being a mainly free-lance Christian, and a part-time Methodist (on Sunday mornings) :D--> :D--> :D-->

Excellent points, Evan. I know for me personally, even though I consider myself to be a "unitarian" as opposed to "trinitarian," I have found more common ground with the trinitarians when it comes to living my life as a christian. I think it's mainly because trinitarians don't have the hangups about worshipping Jesus and exalting him as Lord that many unitarians do. Trinitarians seem to really "get it." And I must confess, the only unitarians I know are exwayfers, who because of Wierwillian theology, have some trouble understanding such things as praise and worship, and Jesus as Lord, Saviour, King, Friend, and everything he is to us. Worship was virtually non-existant in twi, along with Jesus. :(--> As always, my opinion and experience only.

Greek, Yes, it is a pretty long way from PFAL, thank goodness. ;)--> Which brings up another question for me. What is the role of the holy spirit in worship? and if the essential role of the holy spirit is to glorify Jesus Christ as Lord, wouldn't that be reflected in worship?

Too Gray I love what you have expressed about truth being ephemeral. Most of us are pretty familiar with the concept of "eternal truth" I think. But the idea you have introduced that it can also be fleeting, and last only a moment, that we must reach out and grab it while we can, is so refreshing. I think that's how the holy spirit often works. Our eyes and ears are opened for a brief moment, and it's up to us to pay attention.

Roy And thank you for the purity of your heart. Freaky, yeah, I'm with you, things get too complicated, and I'm lost. --> And Greek, I'm not sure if I'm following what you mean? Yes, the holy spirit is essentially to glorify Jesus Christ and point to him as Lord. Is that what you mean?

alfa Your post reminded me of something....of how VPW absolutely could not stand feedback, that questioned his "conclusions," much less criticism of any kind. WTH You posted somewhere, I don't remember where, how criticim didn't affect VP's "stand" on the Word, or something like that. That is so wrong, WTH. If you knew him, you would know how intolerant he was of anybody, no matter who it was, who disagreed with him. A sad truth about who he was.

Lightside Just a suggestion, but if you read John 14-17, Jesus' last words to his beloved disciples before his suffering and death.....as if he's talking to and about you and me...ohmigosh! This also happens to be the section where he talks about the coming Comforter.

And Too Gray I love what you said. ;)--> And sir guess, cw, roy, dm, freaky, rascal, golfie, wayfer not, wb, def, everybody. Thanks for "kicking it up a notch" on our kitchen. :D-->

Lifty I disagree with that statement. I think for a Christian to "be in the center of God's will" he/she needs to spend much time in prayer and "seeking the Lord." The bible isn't gonna tell me specifically how to handle the relationships in my life, and point out the best choice in life's situations. But "the Lord knows the way through the wilderness," and we can hear his voice in our lives, through many means, not just bible reading.

Lightside Thanks for that. I personally believe that if we are "to do the works that Jesus did" it is imperative that we have a relationship with him. We must be on intimate talking terms with him in order to carry out his will for the church. After all, he is the head, and still in the business of carrying out God's will in his body, healing included. I think it's the holy spirit that allows us to have this relationship. Which to me includes walking and talking with Jesus, prayer to him, if you will. He is called our "friend" for good reason. Also, I think that "showing mercy" which is listed as one of the "gifts" or "ministries" in the body of Christ, is intimately connected with healing. It's true I think, that love "energizes" our ability to be "led by the spirit." That love would include seeing as the Lord does. Like the hymn says, "He looks beyond my faults and only sees my need." I agree that every human on the planet has need of some kind. Jesus was always able to speak to that need, no matter how scary it looked. (I'm thinking of the "man of the tombs") There wasn't a person he encountered, that he wasn't able to reach, to touch, to heal. I think he's still the same today, and it's his gift of holy spirit that enables us to walk in his stead. Of course, we must choose to do that. We make the choice to follow, but it's still Jesus, by way of the holy spirit that leads us.

Well, ain't we having fun. :D--> And to think, I wasn't sure if anyone would post on this thread. :D--> :D-->

Well, I thought the young guy leading the songs was cute. ;)--> Other than that, everybody looks old and boring. I would wonder about an bible study oraganization that had families involved, with an older woman in charge if I was a typical pedestrian watching this. Usually you see a couple, or a family together, not just an older female. It seems odd to me.

Lookout and JT, I appreciate the heads up. But I thought Teknon was simply asking how to find emails that are posted on our profiles. What she said was she would like to email someone privately, but many of us have publicly posted email addresses. ;)-->

This is just too "coincidental." Just a few minutes ago, I was clicking around on the tv looking for the weather forecast. I came across Binny Hinn and Oral Roberts talking together. They were talking about walking in the spirit in general, the gifts of healing in specific. :)--> Binny Hinn asked Oral Roberts what advice he had for the person just starting out in ministry, and OR said to read the gospels and Acts to see how Jesus healed and ministered. Because we are to be like him. Pretty cool.

sir guess :)--> Of course, the holy spirit, as well as God. even though He is referred to as "the Father" encompasses both genders. I saw what you were saying in your first post, but didn't realize that you thought it was "contraversial." I don't.