ex10

I'm glad i'm not the only plaid claid, Catholic schoolgirl, or white-shirted tie wearing Catholic schoolboy, here. :D--> And don't forget the smell of (potculli? is that how you spell it?) incense burning...

Just a thought, but the Catholic view of suffering is a little different (actually alot different) than the mainline Protestant view. Ok, all you Catholics kids who were taught that it's a good thing to suffer and offer it up as a sacrifice to the Lord, raise your hands? Maybe ya gotta be Catholic (or a former Catholic) to get it, totally?

;)--> mum's the word...

Ohmigosh!!! OM, you are beyond clueless about VP. VPW used to hold "closed corporation" corps and leadership meetings regularly. And many times, before he started to "share," he would make sure nobody was recording what he said. As in for example, after a recorded teaching like a corps night or something, he would have all the equipment turned off, and then he would sit and smoke and "talk" to the corps. The vast majority of these "closed corporation" meetings were NOT recorded, specifically because VP didn't want them to be. Geeeeeeeeze, loueeeeeeze. --> Anybody who was in the corps when VP was still prez, can testify to this.

dmiller Yes, Zig Ziglar is still around, and spry and as articulate as ever, even though he is well into his 70's. He also is a very outspoken Christian, and yes he's into being positive, setting goals, building integrity, personal character, etc. But it's not the "law of believing" stuff of TWI. He applies the "principles" only to ones personal life and attitude. He doesn't "spiritualize" it. :)--> Sorry for the derail. ;)-->

Thanks, duvy, for the reply. By the "mechanical stuff" I meant, the "law of believing," and giving=God HAS to give back to us, those sorts of things. Like if we do certain things, then God HAS to act. I guess I think of "mechanical stuff" as being the opposite of having a close relationship. :)-->

OK, true confession time. Last night, about 6:00 pm my next door neighbor called and said she and her husband were not gonna make the 7:00 showing of the movie. He was stuck in traffic at the Galleria. (If you know Houston, you understand.) She asked if Husband and I would like to use her tickets. Very thoughtful of her. (She knew eldest child was going and wanted to know if we'd like to go along.) Honestly, I didn't want to go. I said "no thank you, but thanks anyway." I had spent an enjoyable day at a function in Houston being inspired by Rudy Guiliani and Zig Ziglar, and a few other well known people. I confess, I didn't want to spoil the wonderful day I had. It was just too much of a gear change mentally for me to handle. I wanna see the movie, mainly because I wanna see for myself what it's all about. But I want some time to prepare myself mentally for it. I gotta get in the mood. And also, I must add, I am one of those people who can't watch violent movies without having flashbacks forever. Too visually oriented, I guess. But I will see it, eventually, in my own time, on my own terms. :D--> My daughter did tell me that when the movie ended and the lights came on in the theatre, nobody moved, for an entire 10 minutes. Everybody just sat there. Then finally, someone got up to leave, and others followed, in silence. Nobody said anything, according to daughter. Interesting....

There really are people out there, who practice what they preach. Seems to me, their words should carry more weight than someone who left a wake of pain, hurt, and destruction. It's really not that hard to get up in front of a crowd, or a video camera and spout off a bunch of "principles." :)-->

Interesting thoughts here. The only thing I think of to add is that a "conscience" is not something that we are "born with," it's something that we develop. How else do we explain sociopaths, psychopaths, personality disorders, etc. Some of the most evil people, have claimed to be saved. I know of one in particular, who had no qualms about using people for his own ends. Yet, I'm pretty sure he was "saved." ;)--> And Jesusfreaky, the thing about confessing your sins to another person is really not a bad idea. It's actually in the bible. It's just the way it's carried out in the Catholic Church might/might not be the best approach. ;)--> There certainly is alot to think about, isn't there?

Duvvy I'm a little curious as to what John H teaches about Jesus Christ. Does he teach that he is still "absent" like TWI did? Is Jesus the center of his teaching? or is it the "mechanical" stuff of TWI. I'm being nosy... ;)-->

Haha, Wordwolf Let's just say that, thanks to my dearly beloved, I've come to appreciate the greatness of the 3 stooges. :)--> Freaky, don't worry, we saved ya a seat. ;)--> And socks, the "mechanical view" of spiritual things, certainly does leave more questions unanswered than it answers. That view, seems to come sort of a dead end. One finally gets to the point where it seems that there are no more answers. But to me, just the idea that something is "spiritual" implies that we can't possibly know it all, and see it clearly with "mathmatical exactness and scientific precision." We see through a glass darkly and all that. Interesting thoughts about the renewed mind...and such things. I haven't thought about that little phrase in a long time. Probably because it was so misused in our former church, even hearing the words makes me flinch. Lots of things to think about.

It's definitely a guy thing. Oh, The things we do for love.... :)--> I'm hearing stains of Rock Me On The Water...in the background here.

ROFL socks! Hey it ain't you. I spent the day at church and it put me in a mood, and has brought out my inner "know it all smart aleck." Please do me a favor and totally ignore everything I say tonight. :P--> And also in my defense, my dearly beloved rented "The Three Amigos" and is forcing me to watch it with him. :D-->

I know, socks, I jumped ahead. Sorry. :(--> It's the "oldest child" in me coming out. Do it my way or else..........you're wrong. :D-->

OK, we interrupt this thread, for an altar call, we all fall on our faces and REPENT, singing "Just AS I AM." Next song is "I Surrender All." We all cry, cleanse ourselves, breathe in deeply, and carry on. :D--> Gosh, I love you guys.

Exactly, socks. And this is where the idea of "power" enters in. The holy spirit is also "the power from on high, the promise of the Father" (the ultimate "power") We can't skip Jesus as Lord and think we have it. The tragic flaw of the way......skip Jesus, just show me the power, that I can use, to do MY will, etc. You still with me? Sir guess, exactly why those who misuse "the power" become so despicable. ;)-->

Gosh, I'm feeling guilty. The only thing I can think of that I want back is my high school class ring that I pawned when I was a WOW to pay rent one month.

Nomad We must live in a parallel universe. :)--> I was talking to my 16 yr. old daughter about seeing the movie on Tuesday. She said, "Mom, do you mind that I'm seeing it before you?" I said no, of course not. After all, your favorite movies are Braveheart, The Patriot, and The Last of The Mohicans. (All movies which I have never managed to see all the way through. :)--> )I think you can handle it. :D--> "But I do have one request," I said. Will you sit next to me when I see it?" My daughter is so cool.

Yeah, socks. And the amazing thing is that he gave us a Comforter so that he can be present in our lives as our Lord, leader, teacher, friend. As in where two or more of you are gathered in my name, etc. We can KNOW him intimately, and know how he works in our hearts, in our lives, in his church. He shows us how to "do the workds that he did, and greater..." by the promise of the Comforter and Counsellor. Why, I think we've stumbled upon the missing link in Wierwillian Theology of the holy spirit... ;)-->

But Ralph my friend, the holy spirit is referred to as "The Comforter," by Jesus himself. It makes me wonder, could all the evidences, gifts, manifestations, whatever you want to call them, be for comfort? mainly? Lord knows we need a little of that in this life.

Roy I love what you said about the life of the spirit being in the blood of Jesus Christ. Thank you for that, Roy. Yeah, CW, the breathing thing. I gotta think about that one for a while. :)--> And freaky and Lightside, Much to think about, yeah! Ya know, Lightside, healing IS for everyone, but sometimes it doesn't look like what we think it should. I only say this because I seem to have the knack for praying with people and being with them at the time their life as they know it, is coming to an end. Even if someone is drawing their last breath, we can still offer them the hope that is in Jesus Christ. Or at least remind them of it, and bring comfort and peace. Assuage the fear... Geeeze, I sound like the angel of death or something... But I'm not, I promise! [This message was edited by ex10 on February 19, 2004 at 22:22.]

Thank you, Roy for your kind words. :)--> Lightside, I think you are right about receive, retain, release, and especially the point you made about boldness. I think another principle that applies when it comes to the workings of the holy spirit is, "He who hesitates is lost." :)--> I've read your posts several times over, thinking about what you've said. It inspired me to read the first 5 or so chapters of Hebrews. It ocurred to me that Heb. 4:12 refers to the spoken Word as well as the written Word. The spoken word, whether it's what we receive from the Lord for ourselves, or what He has us speak to others, is so life-giving and powerful, and accomplishes the Lord's purposes when spoken with faith. I think the "manifestations" of the spirit are they way in which Jesus Christ makes his presence known, and works through us to fulfill His will (which is always God's will.) I think part of the secret to getting consistent results is asking the Lord what he has in this situation or circumstance for this particular person, etc. I think VPW was correct (or rather BG Leonard) in his teaching that it's "our operation of the God-given ability..." We choose to step out in faith, and take the appropriate action required. Check pt. I hope this makes sense. [This message was edited by ex10 on February 18, 2004 at 18:23.]

Thanks for the heads up, digger. But I think the word's out about how gruesome the torture scenes are. My 16 year old daughter will see it before I do. She's a staff member at our church, and will see it the day before it's released in theatres, with the rest of the staff. I'll see what her reaction is...and be there to comfort her if she needs it.

and sisex to answer your question, I think yes at first. But then once you get it, you get it better than anyone else. ;)-->

Aw, CW, you don't need to duck on this thread. We're just talking. I like hearing what everbody thinks. That's why I didn't wanna start this thread in the doctrinal section, so nobody feels the pressure to "be right." ;)--> I'm not sure about the "goddess" thing, but I know I believe that God encompasses both genders. Even though I refer to Him as He, I don't think He is masculine exclusively. And I don't think the holy spirit has a gender either. :)-->