ex10

Well, geeeze, I can't believe it but I just spent a half hour digging around in my garage for my corps night notes from Romans 14. (the 8th and 10th were in-rez during VP's teaching of Romans) Eureka!! I found em, and hubby's too. None of our notes say anything that could be remotely construed to justify free sex and/or adultery. The only thing they do say is that you can't judge one another, condemn one another, only God knows the heart, yada, yada, yada. Pretty generic stuff, and on topic, with a way spin of course. I also checked our notes from JAL's teaching on Romans to the corps as well. Nada about justifying any kind of sin. Not even close. Goey, I know you stated that it didn't matter if "the alternate version" of Romans 14 was taught formally or not. Well, it wasn't. And I think it does matter. :)--> I don't know where the "alternate version" came from exactly, but it wasn't the "official" Romans teaching to the corps. And if it wasn't an "official" teaching, it's highly unlikely that any other leader taught it in public. And if it wasn't public, then it was not generally known to, well, the public. :)--> So there's no way to determine who heard it and who didn't, etc. I hope I'm making sense, and if this is a total derail, oooops, sorry.

Have the happiest of days, Hope!

So Uncle Hairy, do you have anything you would like to share? Anything bless you lately? :D--> (I hope you know I'm kidding.)

Yes, Linda, I remember. It does seem like GS is a kinder, gentler place, despite the usual bickering. ;)-->

Wordwolf I have teens that were never in TWI. (thank goodness) I thought the same thing. Loyboy's attitude is pretty pathetic, spoken like the true sex addict he was. Sad. Socks and Unc, I think the whole "in fellowship/out of fellowship" thing was also a factor in the minimizing of sin. Heck, the word "sin" was verboten. Nobody in TWI ever "sinned." We "broke fellowship." Sheesh. I've never heard other Chrisitans skirt around the sin issue like we wayfers could. I think it's particularly sad because so many in my little exwayfer world still don't quite see how twisted TWI doctrine keeps them from "victory (over sin) in Jesus."

LOL. Good answer. :D-->

oh dmiller You look mahvelous in egg. ;)--> This thread is from last year, 2003. If anybody should have egg on their face, it would be the PFAL meister. His rants are nothing new. And this thread is still current because, well, he's stuck in a time warp and can't get out. --> Hey, ya wanna come help me get the bubbles out of my hot tub? wink wink :D-->

But Grizz, I hear what you're saying, but ya gotta remember the standard MO of the corporation has always been to duck and weave, lie, coverup, whatever the NEED is to preserve "the intergrity of the Word." Sure some of the "finger pointers" were "involved." Which made their first-hand testimony all the more believable. The whispering/gossip machine was powerful and vicious in TWI. My experience was that when I called the "whistleblowers" and asked them point blank questions, they spoke the truth, even when it got ugly. I heard them out, and made my own decision, based on my own experience. Lots of people did that. I admit, if you didn't know some of the people involved, it would've been alot harder to go to the source. That's the unfortunate thing. Not everybody had access to the truth about what was going on.

dmiller YES. :D-->

dmiller Look at the year, dear. ;)-->

LOL Oak Maybe we could up our ABS as well.... :D-->

I can't believe I just reread this entire thread. Ok, so it's slow at work. I miss LarryP. :(--> Do you think we could all scrunch up our believing muscles and believe him to come back?

Oldies, newsflash Fornication is sin according to the bible. If you don't believe me, just look up the uses of the word in the New Testament. ;)-->

Oldies, I see what you are saying, but I think the distinction is irrelevant because it was NOT MADE by those who were into the "secret doctrine." It didn't matter if one was single or not.

Goey, you've inspired me to tell another true story. This didn't happen to me, but to one of my closest girlfriends. Since it's really her story, and not mine to tell, I won't get into all the gory details. But she was a full-time staffer for TWI, who lived in a TWI owned property. When the adultery paper fiasco happened, she called someone who she thought she could trust, Joe G. and said: "The Way doesn't teach that adultery is OK, do they?" Within MINUTES, not hours, she was fired from her position that she had held ever since graduating from the corps, and given 24 hours to move out of her home. All the other staff people whom she lived with were FORBIDDEN TO TALK TO HER, OR HAVE ANY CONTACT with her. She had no savings, no car, and was on the other side of the country from her family. This scenario happend dozens of times over in 86-87.

Well said, Oak. I always have trouble with those who feel like they have to "parent" or "correct" other ADULTS. -->

Hope, Excellent post! Catcup, I thought the very same thing. That guys used that "logic" as sort of a pickup line. My response was always "Yeah, right. --> " I never dreamed anybody really believed it totally, and was using it to "coerce" people. Until a couple of years before the POOP, when I happened to hear it from Don W himself. And then from Johnny T. And then it was "Ohmigosh! " But I still didn't realize how it had permeated the thinking of so many "leaders." It WAS a "heads up" for me, though. So when John S. sent us a copy of his paper, and then got fired, I KNEW what he was saying was true. And evidently, so did alot of other people, because it set off the first great purging of the way, Inc. It sure puts loyboy's loyalty letter in a different light.

So when psychogeer had his great POOP, he probably didn't realize that part of the garbage that would come out would be the secret "it's ok to be promiscuis whether you're single or married" doctrine. I guess he didn't count on John S. writing a paper to address the issue. Hence, all the firings and the fallout from that incident. He had to shut up anybody who knew what the paper was really about, ie adultery is sin. Since he was VP's chief busdriver/pimp (allegedly) he couldn't incriminate himself. So really the splintering of TWI was all about covering up the rampant promiscuity of its leaders. No wonder the craigmonster got spitting mad at all the cop-outs, and wanted us dead. We knew his dirty little secret. And he knew it would be the end of any kind of legitimacy for TWI. It would seal TWI's doom as a cult if it got out. I've always thought that the adultery issue was just one among many that caused the splintering. But now I think that it was the MAIN ISSUE.

I musta been dozing during the "it's not a calling" meeting.... Wasn't there some kind of way corps promo video once upon a time called "Called Out" or something like that?

Wow, Catcup, and you too, Uncle Hairy. You just connected alot of dots for me. :)--> I've always wondered why LCM and the other fornicators (abusers) at the top of TWI's food chain were not run out on a rail the first time the adultery issue came to light in the mid-80's. And then, from what I understand, again in the mid-90's LCM was confronted. Didn't work then either. It wasn't made PUBLIC enough for people to believe that it could possibly be true. It took a lawsuit for that to happen. And that was too "public" for the usual lies and cover-ups to work. Duh, ok, it seems so obvious now, but I guess nothing short of a very public, ugly, lawsuit could work. The word of many witnesses just wasn't good enough. There were too many "abusers" who were interested in covering their own rears as well. Geeeze, I know I should have figured this out sooner, but it just suddenly became very clear to me.

Oakspear I think you really hit on something big, when you mentioned the "consistency" factor in the way corps. The way corps experience was not "consistent" for those of us who went through it, neither were the results of the training "consistent." One of the reasons for this, I think, was that there were so many of us who had varying degrees of life's experience, different talents and abilities, areas of interest, etc. Yet, we were not treated as individuals, but one giant mass, that was supposed to march perfectly in step to the same cadence, no matter what. Heck, even in college there is some latitude in what you can study, depending on your individual interests, goals, talents, etc. You have your own individual curriculum, and determine your own destiny, to a point. But in the way corps, none of that was taken into consideration, IMO. If you didn't fit a certain "mold," then nobody knew what to do with you too much. So pressure was applied to "conform." And the "image" or the "mold" kept changing, according to who happened to be "in charge." Individuality was really a threat. And I think it got progressively worse as time went on, especially after the "splintering" of TWI.

Uncle Hairy, You sound so bitter. I'm very sorry that you were so disappointed. I was too, but somehow I've managed to salvage some good out of the whole thing. Maybe that's just not possible for some. I was in a sorority in college. I feel like that was a total waste of my time. -->

Well, Geek, I don't think that any "exaggerated claims" were made. Uncle Hairy simply started this thread by saying that he was disappointed in the corps program. It just didn't live up to his expectations. I don't see any "exaggerated claim" in that. It's how he feels about the whole thing, and others agree with him. I don't thing you are being fair or honest by dissing the way some feel about the program. Maybe you and I feel differently, but honestly, knowing what I know now about TWI and its leadership, there is no way I would have gone into the corps. But of course, I didn't know, and neither did you I'm assuming, so we did the best we could in the circumstances. Others were not so fortunate in their experiences as we were. :(--> Their view is just as valid as anybody elses. Sigh.....We all need to sort out our past for ourselves, and we don't have to all feel the same way about everything, or else we're right back in the cult.

Our curfew was 11:00 our first yr. Which was a good thing, because Richard was fond of early morning, and I do mean EARLY fun runs. Somebody forget to tell him he wasn't in the marines anymore. --> And Hope, there was no way to get out of running in our corps. Trust me, I tried. :)-->

haha, johnny Unfortunately, I was mot there for the infamous mudfight. I was spending a blissful, "boring" (ha, I wish) summer in Rome City stalking tomato worms, pitting cherries 24 hours a day, and murdering the in-rez chickens. Hubby wasn't there either, as he was incarcerated at Gunnison with psychogeer. Ah, but I've heard the stories. I always wondered who it was that had the nerve to tackle Richard, and live to tell about it. I shoulda figured. :D-->