ex10

Well, I think I like what satori had to say. :)--> I am so long gone from the way, been "out," for much longer than I was ever "in," yet sometimes telling what I know still gets to me, along with hearing others' stories, for the first time. I like to think that it's having compassion or empathy, and not being so hardened to it all, that I am cold and unfeeling. There's always someone out there, it seems, who has questions and is still trying to untangle the knots in their life. I don't get angry, just sad. :(-->

Thanks, you guys, for helping me make a career decision. I am so done with being a decorator, I'm going back to designing custom homes. More bucks and ya don't have to deal with the public stereotypes. :)-->

I just answered a private topic to someone, and I have to admit, sometimes telling what I know about the way and people in it, makes me sick to my stomach a little. I knew stuff when I was in, but not near as much as I know now after visiting with exes and such, and sometimes I just feel sorta sick after talking, visiting, and learning more. Am I the only one? Sometimes I just want to um, uh, for lack of a delicate word, I just want to puke. Sorry, :D-->

OK, well, like I said, geeeeze, gay males, no problemo, females couples, seem to be a problem. Go figure... I have no particular reason for asking, except that I have to deal with it. :)--> peace, love, dove

Well....I think it might be true that gay men are more accepted by straight women. Somehow, we don't feel threatened???? and gay men just seem to fit in, somehow. But gay women, are.....more of an issue, more so than gay men, to both male and female. It's just my own personal observation here, nothing scientific or psycologically valid. I'm just talking experience. But the gay women are seen as much more.....I don't know....intimidating? I'm just wondering why....

thanks, long gone. so in other words, he's hiding something. I love these "aha......" moments. :)--> Isn't it a nice profession in life to keep people from discussing the real issues?

Ok, I'm probably opening a whole can of worms here, that I'm not willing to deal with. So all posters here beware. But, this is question I have wondered about for a long time. Drun roll please, ta dum...... Why is it that male homosexuality is so much more accepted than female homosexualty? I work in a profession where male homosexuality is accepted, commonplace, and nobody makes a big deal about it. As an interior designer, I've known and am friends with, work with, etc. male homsexuals, and it's no big deal to me, or anybody else, really. Yet, lesbians are not welcome in many circles where gay men are. Why is that? Why do female homosexuals have a much harder time, and get stigmatized even more than men? Honestly, I'm just wondering.....

uh, what the hay, I'm having the same trouble gettin what you're saying that socks and sisex are. Having been very involved in the counseling field in the church, I'm going....."huh?"

Hairy, They had the home show there this year, c'mon it's put to some good use, sorta. :)-->

OMG, Johnny, tis old news. Email me dear, I'll fill you in. :)--> I know, tis totally disgusting and gross. :(--> I really hate being the bearer of more bad news, but in the interest of being truthful, tis neccessary. I'm sorry. :(-->

Ohmigosh, Johnny. You have been on the boat way too long. Catch up, dear. It's not a rumor. Oi vey, it pains me to say this....

When I worked on staff in the 70's, there were 80 of us non-corps and corps grad staffers, with 100 interim corps staff. We managed. :)--> And we had exponential growth, as far as followers go. Our church has over 8,000 members and a staff of 25, most of which are part-timers. Makes one go hmmmmm.....

bingo, Parsley. I'm thinking 70's mindset here... What if, just supposing if, middle class American families in the church world, were looking for a deeper connection with God, midst all the confusion and materialism of the 60's and 70's? Where would they go? If one happened to be approaching 40, believe in women's rights, civil rights, and not believe in war or American Imperialism, and was disillusioned with the traditional "church", where would one go for answers? Might not TWI have fit the niche to a degree? Traditional in some ways, yet very radical and altruistic in others? Just pondering...

On another note, parsley, I know I'm probably not on track with what you are studying, but I've always been interested in in studying how the way fit into the larger, cultural, religious scene during its heydey. I don't think TWI was a phenomenon removed from its cultural/religious/social context. I've always thought it would be interesting to study TWI in regards to the Jesus Movement as well as the Charismatic movement that made inroads into middle religious (mainly Catholic) America. The point of view, that only people who had some kind of personal, psychological/emotional need got involved has never satisfied me. I think it was a bit bigger than that.

With all due respect to what you wrote shaz, I look at the whole scenario on a much more general level. Having been raised Catholic, and coming from a fairly religious upbringing, the whole idea that people could sit in a living room, read the bible for themselves, and then actually apply it to daily life, was a novel idea. At least to my Catholic family. Maybe the appeal was that "God and religion" could actually relate to our everyday lives. And we didn't need a priest or a nun in the family to make us "spiriutal." Just a thought. I guess I should add that VP and company smooozed our family, so that it took me (and select family members) a little longer to figure out that all was not what it appeared to be in Oz. Done on purpose? You bet your sweet behind.....

Well, to throw a total wrench into the conversation here.... I think that there were people who really just wanted to experience God in a more personal way, i.e. via bible study, prayer, connecting with other humans on a personal level outside of the "church" setting. In the 70's, before "home fellowships" were a widespread idea among churches, there was a certain appeal on a personal level, as well as a spiritual one. I think some Christians wanted a deeper, more personal faith, that the small group setting afforded. Ya gotta remember that it was a novel idea in the 70's. The way offered small groups with bible study and prayer. Now it's commonplace, but it wasn't then. Maybe that's all there is to it? Perhaps it didn't take a certain psycological pathology to be involved with TWI, just a hunger for faith to be on a more personal level. My parents didn't experience all the contolling crud that we as way corps, wows, etc. did. When it got way too intense, then we bailed. Everybody has their limits, I guess. And when it became clear the organization as a whole was a total mess, then people left. Am I being way too naive?

thelema I am so sorry for the pain you suffered. I was a single way corps person who babysat alot during my time at the Indiana campus, and I had no idea all this horrid stuff was going on. I just liked kids, and spent alot of time with them, just because. I didn't carry a spoon or anything. I just liked spending time with them, and got called on to babysit alot, because I was single. I am so sorry it was so bad for you. I wish I could so something for you now.

yeah vickles If your mom and dad and brothers, and aunts and uncles and cousins were in your twig, it took on a whole different flavour.

well, it used to be, in the olden days, it was possible to have a nice twig. It's kinda like Galen and others talk about, it was totally possible to be a normal human, and maybe even go to church, (egads! what a notion,) while still having twig. Ask sudo, he knows.

and yeah, mj, I kinda agree in a way. The way sold a bible class, and some people just got interested in the bible. :D-->

vickles What makes you think we "believed everything?"

Yeah so, but how do you explain those of us who finished college, had our family's support, and didn't "drink the kool aid" as far as that stuff goes. We stayed close to family, even got closer, and basically stayed on the same track when everyone left, because the cult was too claustrophobic? I always got accused of thinking I was the exception to the "rules." Maybe it was true. :D-->

parsley At the risk of being way too simplistic, I would like to suggest that maybe the attraction wasn't so much social/psycological, but maybe spiritual? Just speaking from personal experience, I grew up in an affluent family, with no real needs, as far as the social/economic...even psycological stuff goes. OK, I'm oversimplifying, because everybody has "stuff". But honestly, for me and my family, I think it was "spiritual hunger," i.e. dissatisfaction with the church, maybe, that drew us to TWI. I think wanting to connect with God on a deeper level, inspired us all. VP and company sorta, kinda promised that.

Abi, I agree wholeheartedly with Hap. Don't do it!!!! Find the things that interest him the most, what he's passionate about, and emphasize that with him, whether it's sports, music, math, science, cub scouts, reading, whatever. It's hardly ever a good idea to make such decisions when a child is so young. When he gets into middle school, don't they have honors classes, advanced placement or some such thing? His sounds like a temporary problem to me. Don't put him in a situation where he feels like he's always trying to catch up, socially, physically, whatever. (Not that I think you would. :)--> ) Things have a tendency to even out as the kids get older. I think his emotional/social development is just as important as his academic talents. :)--> Well, you asked. :D--> And yeah, I speak from experience.

I think I have my feelings hurt. Sniff, sniff....Nobody has called me a babe in decades. I guess that's what I get for being an old married lady......sniff.