now I see

Hi 2life, She probably has already done this, but she should see if her domicile has any crashpads set up for TYS. Also find out if she's gone to the flight info site and checked on the Crashpad forum, there's a July posting for TYS, maybe that person has some info that will help, it's also a great place to interface with any other aviatrix and others with PSA. She probably also done this too, but she should register with Pro Pilot World since she qualifies with her ATP, that is by far one of the best sites to rub shoulders with the professionals in the industry who can actually help her in her career. I hope she likes jello and ramin noodles...seriously, or has additional means of support. I know most Regionals suck at paying a decent wage the first year, and sometimes it takes nearly a decade for upgrades. Most are right about $1,600 per month pay scale for the first year, a dirty little industry secret the general public knows little about. Congratualations are due to her, welcome to the Regionals!!

Happy birthday coolchef! You all sound like great cooks!! I made beef enchilada casserole tonight, with homemade enchilada red sauce from dried chili pods. My hispanic grandmother always used to use raisins in the fillings of her beef enchiladas and my mom always used to put corn in her enchilada casserole, so I put both raisins and corn in with the ground beef in mine!

Just thought I'd start a thread and see what everyone is cooking/had for dinner tonight, maybe I'll get inspired by what you're cooking....we had pizza tonight. Cheers!

I agree with WW, the LDS church in no way condones it, nor do it's followers. Rocky, excuse me? What are you asking? What are you driving at? Are you asking this of both me and WW? HOW do you know the things you speak of, why do you say that some still practice it and how is it that you say those "folks" do practice the "principle"?

Please excuse my ignorance here, but who is currently running the CES ministry? Who is responsible for content, public teaching, who's in charge of the day to day operation? Maybe a current member/follower of CES needs to step up to post here regarding this. The only sign of change and rethinking of past doings that I have read about has been from John Lynn, which is encouraging, I hope he is taking this time to reflect and continue in that vein, rather than to be an organizational head. So, you guys in CES can you weigh in on this??

Mark Sanguinetti wrote that John and Elizabeth had gotten back together, which is great, my estimation of him has improved greatly because of it, I am not sure how involved he still is anymore in the workings of CES. Didn't they obstensively hand him his hat as they took over his organization while bludgeoning his marriage about a year ago?

He started lying from the womb. Sociopaths start their destiny in childhood. I wonder why he actually decided upon a career in ministry. I wonder if he thought it was an easy way to receive a degree, make a living by talking without much hard study, no real way to meter competence, or an easy way to gain entrance into his desired college since Theology is often a wide open discipline at major universities where other majors are impacted, competitive and closed to average and low grades students. Makes you wanna go Hmmm.

Eyes Open, great perspective, the book of Job is relevant to all those of us who suffered greatly at the hands of the "spiritual leaders". Although a class action suit would get a lot of support, it's probably past the statute of limitations period.

Predatory Narcissist.

I've never eaten tripe or menudo, but I understand it stinks so bad many people won't eat it cause of the smell, it is also an aquired taste I hear. Good thing is squirrel is always good, and the meat is sweeter next to the bone!

They are not LDS by the way, they are an offshoot, the same way CES is an offshoot of TWI. The LDS church doesn't condone what is done in the polygamist's community. There is a whole city that the polygamists live in Colorado City, Arizona, near Utah's border, the community has been there for close to a century. Around those parts, the people and the community are accepted, for the most part, there are lots of people who have amicably left over the years, there is a bit of media hype over this case. So many have assimilated into the surrounding communities it is not that unusual to find ex-members in northern Az and southern Utah. Too bad they didn't let this little girl determine her own future.

Geez, that squirrel looks fat! He must be getting ready for winter and eating all the nuts! You know when I went WOW in Wisconsin in '77, we often were given squirrel to eat as a gift from one of our twig members, it's real good when it's stewed!

Here's two good winter sandwiches, very warm and filling. The first one may sound wierd if you've never tried it, but it's basically a stuffed french toast sandwhich with savory ingredients, and surprisingly enough, it's real good with the strawberry jam dipping sauce. Monte Cristo sandwich Ingredients: 2 slices bread mustard/dijon to taste 3 thin slices deli ham 3 thin slices turkey 1 slice gruyere or swiss cheese 1 egg 1 tablespoon milk 1/2 teaspoon vanilla 1 teaspoon butter 1 teaspoon powdered sugar 1 tablespoon strawberry jam Directions: 1. Spread mustard on a slice of bread and construct the sandwich with the ham and cheese. 2. Mix the egg, milk, and vanilla in a shallow bowl or container. 3. Dip the whole sandwich into the egg mixture and cover both sides with it shaking off excess. 4. Melt the butter in a pan. 5. Fry both sides of the sandwich in the pan until golden brown and the cheese has melted. 6. Sprinkle a heavy layer of powdered sugar onto the sandwich. 7. Serve with strawberry jam for dipping This is a classic french recipe, it really hits the spot on a cloudy rainy day. Croque Monsieur 2 tablespoons unsalted butter 3 tablespoons all-purpose flour 2 cups hot milk 1 teaspoon kosher salt 1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper Pinch nutmeg 12 ounces Gruyere, grated (5 cups) 1/2 cup freshly grated Parmesan 16 slices white sandwich bread, crusts removed Dijon mustard 8 ounces baked Virginia ham, sliced but not paper thin Preheat the oven to 400 degrees F. Melt the butter over low heat in a small saucepan and add the flour all at once, stirring with a wooden spoon for 2 minutes. Slowly pour the hot milk into the butter–flour mixture and cook, whisking constantly, until the sauce is thickened. Off the heat add the salt, pepper, nutmeg, 1/2 cup grated Gruyere, and the Parmesan and set aside. To toast the bread, place the slices on 2 baking sheets and bake for 5 minutes. Turn each slice and bake for another 2 minutes, until toasted. Lightly brush half the toasted breads with mustard, add a slice of ham to each, and sprinkle with half the remaining Gruyere. Top with another piece of toasted bread. Slather the tops with the cheese sauce, sprinkle with the remaining Gruyere, and bake the sandwiches for 5 minutes. Turn on the broiler and broil for 3 to 5 minutes, or until the topping is bubbly and lightly browned. You can add bacon to this, shredded parmesan cheese, herbs, sliced turkey or chicken, or add a fried egg and you'll have a croque Madam.

Here's 4 recipes that are family favorites at our house, they are really good, are fairly easy recipes, and are different than the same old baked chicken. They all taste as good as they sound! Indonesian Ginger Chicken: 1 cup honey ¾ cup soy sauce (she doesn't specify a type; I used a dark Chinese one purchased at our local Eastern foods market) ¼ cup minced garlic (8 to 12 cloves) ½ cup peeled and grated fresh ginger root 2 chickens (3½ pounds each), quartered, with backs removed Cook the honey, soy sauce, garlic, and ginger root in a small saucepan over low heat until the honey is melted. Arrange the chicken in a large, shallow baking pan, skin side down, and pour on the sauce. Cover the pan tightly with aluminum foil. Marinate overnight in the refrigerator (shorter times work OK too). (Picture at right is of uncooked chicken.) Preheat the oven to 350 degrees. Place the baking pan in the oven and bake for ½ hour. Uncover the pan, turn the chicken skin side up, and raise the temperature to 375 degrees. Continue baking for 30 minutes, or until the juices run clear when you cut between the leg and the thigh and the sauce is a rich dark brown. Chicken with Forty Cloves of Garlic: 3 whole heads garlic, about 40 cloves 2 (3 1/2-pound) chickens, cut into eighths Kosher salt Freshly ground black pepper 1 tablespoon unsalted butter 2 tablespoons good olive oil 3 tablespoons Cognac, divided 1 1/2 cups dry white wine 1 tablespoon fresh thyme leaves 2 tablespoons all-purpose flour 2 tablespoons heavy cream Separate the cloves of garlic and drop them into a pot of boiling water for 60 seconds. Drain the garlic and peel. Set aside. Dry the chicken with paper towels. Season liberally with salt and pepper on both sides. Heat the butter and oil in a large pot or Dutch oven over medium-high heat. In batches, saute the chicken in the fat, skin side down first, until nicely browned, about 3 to 5 minutes on each side. Turn with tongs or a spatula; you don't want to pierce the skin with a fork. If the fat is burning, turn the heat down to medium. When a batch is done, transfer it to a plate and continue to saute all the chicken in batches. Remove the last chicken to the plate and add all of the garlic to the pot. Lower the heat and saute for 5 to 10 minutes, turning often, until evenly browned. Add 2 tablespoons of the Cognac and the wine, return to a boil, and scrape the brown bits from the bottom of the pan. Return the chicken to the pot with the juices and sprinkle with the thyme leaves. Cover and simmer over the lowest heat for about 30 minutes, until all the chicken is done. Remove the chicken to a platter and cover with aluminum foil to keep warm. In a small bowl, whisk together 1/2 cup of the sauce and the flour and then whisk it back into the sauce in the pot. Raise the heat, add the remaining tablespoon of Cognac and the cream, and boil for 3 minutes. Add salt and pepper, to taste; it should be very flavorful because chicken tends to be bland. Pour the sauce and the garlic over the chicken and serve hot. Tequila Lime Chicken: 1 cup freshly squeezed lime juice (5 to 6 limes) 1/2 cup freshly squeezed orange juice (2 oranges) 1 tablespoon chili powder 1 tablespoon minced fresh jalapeno pepper (1 pepper seeded) 1 tablespoon minced fresh garlic (3 cloves) 2 teaspoons kosher salt 1 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper 3 whole (6 split) boneless chicken breasts, skin on Combine the tequila, lime juice, orange juice, chili powder, jalapeno pepper, garlic, salt, and pepper in a large bowl. Add the chicken breasts. Refrigerate overnight. Heat a grill with coals and brush the rack with oil to prevent the chicken from sticking. Remove the chicken breasts from the marinade, sprinkle well with salt and pepper, and grill them skin-side down for about 5 minutes, until nicely browned. Turn the chicken and cook for another 10 minutes, until just cooked through. Remove from the grill to a plate. Cover tightly and allow to rest for 5 minutes. Serve hot or at room temperature. Parmesan Chicken: 4 to 6 boneless, skinless chicken breasts 1 cup all-purpose flour 1 teaspoon kosher salt 1/2 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper 2 extra-large eggs 1 tablespoon water 1 1/4 cups seasoned dry bread crumbs 1/2 cup freshly grated Parmesan, plus extra for serving Unsalted butter Good olive oil Salad greens for 6, washed and spun dry 1 recipe Lemon Vinaigrette, recipe follows Pound the chicken breasts until they are 1/4-inch thick. You can use either a meat mallet or a rolling pin. Combine the flour, salt, and pepper on a dinner plate. On a second plate, beat the eggs with 1 tablespoon of water. On a third plate, combine the bread crumbs and 1/2 cup grated Parmesan. Coat the chicken breasts on both sides with the flour mixture, then dip both sides into the egg mixture and dredge both sides in the bread-crumb mixture, pressing lightly. Heat 1 tablespoon of butter and 1 tablespoon of olive oil in a large saute pan and cook 2 or 3 chicken breasts on medium-low heat for 2 to 3 minutes on each side, until cooked through. Add more butter and oil and cook the rest of the chicken breasts. Serve with extra grated Parmesan. Enjoy!

dmiller, that's exactly the way I feel, and I know I wouldn't have liked to be treated with distain back in the day of door to door witnessing in TWI... Dmiller, you know the Mormon-LDS people are just like those two whom came to your door conveyed, at least the ones I know, they would and do paint people's houses for free, give people, even non-LDS-people free food, infact they run their own farms just for that purpose, to provide for the poor and the elderly. One LDS person I know will stop for just about anyone along the road and give them a lift or help them with their car if they're broken down by the roadside, this guy is one of the most honest and good charactered people I've ever met. They believe it's part of God's will to help people in other ways than just preaching, too bad TWI never felt that way. I've seen real love and faith out of LDS people. Reminds me of the bible record of the good Samaritan...regarding who your brother really is.

It is interesting to reflect on the fact that at one time, we were just as devoted and zealous to promote our ministry in the same way as the JW's and LDSers. And how were also taught to have distain and intolerance for all other religions, with special acknowledgement toward the Catholic church and others, a la the old victster and his predjudices. Funny thing though, Ive read that some posters here at GS are members of the LDS and Roman Catholic churches now.

I just had a discussion with my DH on the way back from dinner and a movie, about the definition of forgiveness biblically and in real life, what it means and how it is applied after deep wounds suffered at the hands of others. The movie we saw kind of relates to this topic, it is a new release called "The Brave One" with Jodie Foster. Jodie's character explains at one point in the movie, without giving the story away, that she used to look down on people who had fear in their lives, she saw it as weakness and it wasn't found in her life. She knew that violent crime was around her, but since it hadn't visited her before, she had no way to relate to those who had it happen to them personally and who'd become fearful as a result. In the movie, she becomes the recipient of violent crime, and it forever changes her. Several times in the movie she states, "you become a different person once this happens to you, you are never the same". It makes me wonder whether those who were never deeply wounded personaly and touched by the cold, dark side of TWI, who are suggesting their version of forgiveness upon others, can even relate to those who were harmed so deeply and in a way that takes years to overcome, if ever. My husband stated that the bible says you absolutely must forgive all others no matter what. Honestly, I've never done too much in depth research on any biblical accounts regarding forgiveness, but I wonder what the verses say? Especially to whom God says is supposed to do the forgiving and toward whom, and under what circumstances. I also am curious as to what differences there are between the biblical definitions and the present day definitions of what forgiveness is....my research list seems to get longer all the time. It seems that forgiveness is often used as a feelgood salvo that is to be topically applied to any and all situations, and I know that in real life it ain't that easy. People loose their religion over these offences, as we have seen here and out there in the world, and I think it would be quite hard to apply blanket forgiveness to real life if let's say, your own child was the recipient of a haneous act by a known individual, awful hard to get over and to just "forgive" it. It just seems to me, that the more haneous and life disturbing the offence committed against one is, the longer it takes to get a grip on it (Especially in a vacuum of information about what really was going on and that it wasn't your fault, which even elongates the process more.), and the harder it is to do it on command and squeeze it into real life situations in light of what today's definition of what forgiveness should be. The devil has never said he's sorry and God hasn't forgiven him either, has He? It just seems that something is missing in our understanding of the terms of forgiveness biblically. Anyway...just my thoughts....Has anyone here done any minute research on forgiveness biblically?

Matthew 18:15-17 NIV 15 If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. T-bone, It's funny how TWI "leadership" turned those verses on their ear and used them against good christian men and women to destroy them, and cast them out. They had no regard for the individual, whether the supposed sin was repented or not, they used these verses to put a scarlet letter on the offender and rid themselves of that person....and then, of course, go behind the persons back and spread rumors about how "possesed" that person was and how badly they "blew" it, and how they couldn't cut it. Yeah, that's real love....

Ooops! Double post!!!!!

I just read a thread called “Forgiveness” that’s currently at the top of this forum, and the poster, Don’tWorryBe, has stated some very salient and applicable thoughts that really fit right into to what we are talking about here. I ‘m quoting his posts below because he/she says it so well, his thoughts about forgiveness and getting over it are so appropriate to what we are discussing here…… He says: And his second post on that thread: Hmmm, you know I’ve never heard of anyone telling the Jews, my parent’s generation, and the world, to forgive Hitler.

That's fine for you, you've already forgiven him, but some people here have spent years of their lives in torment over what was done to them by that looser, some even have lost their lives due to him specifically....remember Tom, who used to man the switchboard at Hq's, who killed himself over Craig helping himself to Tom's wife...maybe some here are justified to be a little ticked off. You can't legislate someone else's forgiveness, it is up to them to do it if and when they're ready, the fact that lcm still doesn't care and still feels he did nothing wrong, which is also substanciated by other posters here, leaves it in our hands to also make judgments about him.

David Cral*y wrote an article on abortion? Was it pro or con? It seems like the old vicster was pro abortion and anti-children most of the time.

Your link doesn't work, you must mean www.abouttheway.org click here By the way, I loved your recent article about the "law" of believing.

From what you posted above, it sounds like they were planning a mass departure in advance of the letter sent out by Lcm. I still have friends who fellowship with Doug S*ed in California, whom I'm working with to enlighten their understanding regarding the old twi system and doctrine that they're still under, what kind of leader is he really? They would probably say that S*ed deserves a home paid for by the people under him, seeing as they still buy into the hierarchy system. They all seem to be afraid of what is to be learned from this website. Apparently it is very threatening to them. Are the leadership there really trying to hide what went on at Hq's and Geer's involvement with it?

I believe California was one of the states that witheld the ABS from Hq in the late 80's, and most of the WC in California, including the LC, got fired all at once circa '88. Many just transfered to Geer's outfit, lock, stock, and barrel. From what I've seen, many who still fellowship w/Geer groups there have no idea about what gets discussed here about vp and twi. I wonder if any found their way to the Greasespot??