now I see

I think when dealing with relationships that have a capacity for restitution it is relatively straightforward and "easier" to apply forgiveness. What is harder to define is forgiveness when the effect of what the other person or entity has done to you has changed your life in a way that was unwanted where you’ll never be the same again, and when the offender is unrepentant, reprobate, still wants to harm you-and in a worse way, and is therefore dangerous for you and others. What arethe biblical answers to forgiveness in these extreem situations? Can others define when and how someone else is to forgive? How did Christ act toward the Pharisees, how was forgiveness a part of that? How has God dealt with the Lucifer and his fallen angels? What part of forgiveness did He apply?

Hey Jim, Look in your email, I emailed you yesterday.

I think the answer lies in the question, has God forgiven Satan?

Welcome Lucygoosey, my post wasn't directed at you, just that I wanted to post concerning the topic of smug twi attitudes toward gays. There was a thread posted on GS about a man who was a pedaphile in twi who ended up in Alaska who harmed the believers up there, it was reported that twi knew about him in advance. Look up molester and alaska in the search engine and you'll find the posts.

There also were many believers around the country who were gay, I wonder if they were forced out too during the purge years of Martindale, sad really. About 7 years ago I ran across a believer who had stayed with Twi through most of the '90's, who commented on how gross they thought “homos” were, made an ugly screwed up face, and acted like they had the plague. At the time I was at a new job where the one person who had unselfishly helped me learn and basically took me under his wing was a gay man. It was a very competitive work environment otherwise, but this man selflessly went out of his way many times to make sure I had no problems. I told this ex way person that and they just shook their head at me in disbelief...priceless! I had also worked with other gay people at previous jobs, and had witnessed to few, and gone to fellowships with some prior to that and had no problems with them as people. I think there is still a stigma attached to being gay among those who’ve left twi, old habits are hard to break. I also think it’s amusing that God chose Lonnie Frisbee to be a leader in the Jesus Movement.

I think in '86 a lot of people who weren't in the Corps or at hq’s never had enough information about the POP to make an informed decision, they never heard it, read it, or had a copy of it, nor had access to anyone who would talk about it in detail or who really understood it themselves. Thusly delaying their departure for years while immersing them in a state of confusion concerning what exactly went on and what it meant, lacking understanding. Many of these non-staff non-corps, apprentice and new corps were intentionally kept in the dark, and those who knew what was going on had left or weren’t talking. We were also told the fear mongering tactic of not to read the John Lynn, Schoenheit paper. I don't remember when the written form of POP came out for anyone to read, maybe 1990 or so? I recall reading a part of a letter from chris geer in 1989 stating that those who had written him asking for copies of POP, or offering assistance with rebuilding the ministry, who were twig coordinators, advance class grads, believers, etc., who weren't top leadership or had older way corps status, needn’t bother. He gave two analogies, one of a trained fire crew, the other of a medical staff responding to an emergency, making the point that he felt the Dr Vpw approved clergy, and pre-1986 way corps had failed to respond properly. He stated that those in the hospital waiting room (meaning all other believers from Twi) were probably vitally concerned but lacking the properly developed skills and would be unable to respond. Kind of like, thanks, but no thanks, patting us on the head, handing us our hats, and sending us away. Gee, thanks….I guess I don’t matter…..nor do any of my efforts….to you or to God…wonderful, more confusion, no chance of being part of the solution according to you... I never understood why he said that in that way, and what the meaning was, until I came here to the Greasespot last year, and learned the full story. If I had only had the missing pieces of the puzzle sooner I could have been well on the way toward healing from the way I was treated by Martindale and others at the end, and figuring out what worshipping God was all about, well before last year. At least I’m here now, well informed, and on the road toward peace and understanding of my past twi life.

Eeewww, yuck, Tonto!! There's real money in foreskins!!!! ha ha ha That reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live skit of the Rabi performing a bris in the back seat of a luxury car, it was a spoof of a commercial about a car with such a smooth ride a jeweler could cut diamonds in the back seat flawlessly, does anyone remember that one?

Wow, I've flown out of 2Q3 before, you are graced with some historic and present aviation royalty there. I also have a friend nearby at the University airport who rebuilds, from the ground up, old decrepit Cessna 140's. I think he and a friend of his share a hanger at 2Q3 too, you might even know him. The CTSW looks like a fun a/c, and probably great to learn in, it's in the new sport category isn't it? Congrats on your training, it's all about the stick and rudder. :)

This where I'd go.... click here: Did you notice it was only $19.95 to become a Reverend? Might be worth it? Also only $222.50 for a triple PhD in Theology, Religeon & Divinity!!!!! Maybe that's where old vic got his? You betcha! Perhaps one could fit a certificat for Prophecy into one of the Psychic categories??

Jim, Mythbusters did an episode recently with a Kalitta Air a/c, a 747, to see if the wake of the jetblast would be enough to blow over a bus. It was. They filmed it on the ramp near YIP, at Kalitta's maintenance base. Hey, where do you hanger your airplane, and what do you fly?

Geez, where did all this personal prophecy stuff come from? Are people really that gullible? You know, I never heard ANYONE ever prophesying that we were in a screwed up ministry, following an abusive sheister, and practicing idolatry durring all those years we were in Twi…how is it that all of a sudden, without missing a beat, there’s so many so called experts in prophecy then? Rood and CES must be special, yeah… that’s right…that’s the ticket… StGeorge, you got that right! ha ha ha ha!!!! I'd say go anywhere but Israel, it's sure to be first on the hit list, then USA, India, & Pakistan all tied for second, but that's another story, for another thread.

Thanks DontWorry, for laying it out there, the saddest thing about this is the people that followed him from Twi are again victims of another gospell and of following a false prophet again. Perhaps your post will help some of them figure things out. You are right, there is NO splinter group that doesn't still bear the stink from the DNA cesspool of that old sheister from Ohio.... Thanks for the 411. F'n insane... :wacko:

Wow, it's terrible that corn field vic treated others that way, it makes you wonder how many countless others were the receivers of his spiteful tirades. What a charlatan. How blind and forgiving we all were for his inexcusable breeches of etiquette and love of God. We were all really deceived...

Nero, If your dad's insurance covers it, he needs to be moved out of state now, rather than later. The costs to do so out of pocket later are astronomical, so if the hospital or insurance is covering it now, do it now. If your mom doesn't have to disrupt her whole life by moving out of state to be with your dad, it probably would help her to have him moved to where she lives. If your mom is too overwhelmed to handle this stuff right now, maybe you or your siblings or your uncle or a close friend of the family can help her by handling this one thing for her. Maybe someone can take the responsibility of finding out what the business end of this situation is to eleviate your mom from dealing with everything all at once. You'll probably need someone to watch over your mom too right now, to be with her to make sure she eats, sleeps, etc., it doesn't sound like she's taking care of herself either. The doctors and nurses probably would appreciate another person in the family to interface with them too if she's emotionally distrought (who wouldn't be?) with the situation. You hang in there, be strong for your family, cherish the time you spend with them and your dad.

HEY....GET A ROOM!!!!

Hey Nero, How's your dad? Still praying for him....

Yes, he did choose the wrong person, but I believe he knew exactly what he was doing. From what DontWorry posted in another thread regarding CM, J S*merville and Vp's relationship and what happened as a result of the survival P.O.W. camp debacle with CM, I kinda think Vp chose him as a successor because of CM's weaknesses and shortcomings. Also, from what I've gathered from those who've closely served him, Vp was a jealous man and needed to be "on top" in all situations, especially among any peers, even if it was only in his own mind, that might have held true even when picking a successor.

I can corroborate this, I went into the Corps in the mid 80's and the physical with an STD test was required before entry I was not an international person either. At the time, I thought the reason why they asked for this was related to a story I had heard about that someone in rez at Emporia had been healed of AID's. I thought it was weird that they asked, but also assummed it related to so many people living together like that, I knew nothing about the leadership's predilection toward sexual predation.

Why not try publishing a free, small 8 1/2 x 11 advertizing circular and distribute it to convenience stores, grocers, apartment buildings, retail stores and real estate offices? Just charge for advertizing. Flyers at ones door require few words and key words to be large, if they are too wordy or what's being advertized takes more than 2 seconds for the reader to ascertain, they they'll wind up in the circular file and will be rendered usueless. Some HOA's and residential developments, apartment buildings, etc have rules that don't allow flyers to be distributed. And it is very hard to find someone who will be responsibile and actually go door to door to all doors and not skip some doors, blocks, upstairs apartments, etc. Each city if different, what works is unique to your area, and might not work somewhere else. Good luck!

Very good T-bone, and Twinky too, those are real words of healing and wholeness, good thing to remember, think about, and let sink in...

With the change in the seasons toward cooler temps I'm in the mood to cook soup, does anyone have any ideas and recipes for good hearty winter soups?

It's quite the diss for mr Lyn* to be openly posting on every other forum 'cept this one.. He is making a very loud, "silent" point. Not very repectful to be doing this to all of the outside supporters and helpers he's had here, some of whom had been faithfully supporting by financial contributions and interest in his organization for years and years. I guess it shows that we here are dispensable people to him and their organization, feels like a blast from the past, a somewhat familiar position...again. He could have at least made an appearance here too, even just to say that he's not commenting on his current situation...but no, he hasn't done that either. None the less, what is, is...I never did mind about the little things.. life goes on.

and don't forget this one: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge

We left a Twinky on the dashboard of our van for a few weeks in the summer once, it completely turned into a milky pool of slime with no semblance to the tasty tubular cake it once was... :blink: :blink:

Tropical storms are one thing-snow cones are another, but here's something that is really useful.... The Cone of Silence