now I see

Socks, I distinctly remember about 7 years ago, hearing vee pee in the adv class, or maybe on a tape from some other class, likening the passage he was discussing to his bodyguards bringing him a beautiful female believer. I remember it cause it left me perplexed over what the meaning could have been and it stuck in my mind for 7 years. Now I can't remember the passage, it could have been the one on David and Bathsheba, or it could have been another, he may have used a different word for bodyguard and female believer, but the idea was the same. At the time I thought it was peculiar because he sort of chuckled about it, and we had just been discussing the role of his bodyguards earlier. Maybe someone here has access to the old veepee adv class and can verify it, but I do remember his reference and thinking it was strange and odd. I didn't know about the adultery then...creepy.

I know the geerite's are ABSing the same way Twi did, except after the obligatory 15% to geere, it's up to the TC to decide where it goes, it stays with the fellowship or goes elsewhere...many send a large % to their LC.

Thanks JeffSjo, I'm sorry I reacted to something you didn't mean either, no hard feelings, I agree with you, all will come out in the end, it helps to know as much as possible now though. I feel with this knowledge people can get healed and delivered from some of the burdens they bear as a result of twi's heavy handedness, at least those who are still living, light dispells darkness. Peace, bro.

Didn't God strongly warn Israel about wanting a King like the Gentiles before God gave them Saul? There is no new thing under the sun...

Their top leaders have NEVER appologized for their hand in destroying lives as LCM's henchmen when they were a part of TWI; they didn't think they needed to.

Lisa, That's too bad about Teresa, I used to know her in twi when she was in highschool, we were about the same age, we hung out periodically, I liked her, she was a nice, normal girl...it sounds like she's changed a lot. I think a lot of us have suffered shades of, to full blown Post Traumatic Stress since we departed from Twi...The more information I get which uncovers the darkness of what was really going on at that time, the more the light of that knowledge chases any residual bad effects away. I used to have bad dreams about twi, I rarely get them anymore after finding greasespot.

It is interesting to note the author, while door to door witnessing in Sheboygan WI, knocks on the door of one of veepee's old classmates from the college and seminary he attended there. This man is a pastor in a small church there and openly hates veepee.(pg 112) It would be interesting to see if some of his old classmates are still alive, and what they have to say about him back then.

I used the "search this book" search engine to read some of the chapters.... Wow, I just read pages 118-122, where he is kicked out by Rev King a la vince F, ugh, brings up bad memories, pretty brutal attack on him because he challenged twi's "economic structure"! He was one of the ones silenced by being driven off after uncovering plagerism through reading Bullinger's and actually telling what the bible says about money for biblical teaching. Twi's strong arm tactics were always there, they just didn't suddenly appear in the mid '80's and beyond, veepee and his thugs, I mean leaders, were at work early on, this incident took place in 1979. This is a good read.

Lisa, did this relate at all to what the POP said about Ricardo C and attempts to murder him? This is almost unimaginable that DM, et al, had gone this far in their minds to justify their actions against twi believ ers... Is this for real?

That's too difficult for them, they would have to get honest about the whole situation, past and present, relinquesh any authoritative power that they weild over their believers, and perhaps do a self check on the heirarchal system they still subscribe to. It would rock their world. Perhaps there would be another exodus, people would leave! You know what I think they did when they left twi, they employed the magic wand, and simply made all the bad stuff dissapear...or maybe it was the Jedi mind trick. The act of leaving TWI was their opportunity to declare themselves as a brand new thing, anything from the twi years that required greater scruitiny were all covered up, and became null and void.

Thanks DontWorry for touching on the reasons you all penned the 37 page doc that way, it makes sense now, your job was restoration. I don’t know DontWorry, I’m having a hard time with this one, how could they not know it was wrong? Craig had been a Baptist, he knew better, were all the wives on board with this practice also, surely some objected? A Greasespot poster had posted on an old thread that someone in this inner circle stated something to the effect, “you don’t really still believe this bible stuff do you?” It seems from the Yak twig reactions they didn’t really either, they had gotten away with it for so long, why should they fear God? You’re right everything ultimately comes down to our individual relationship with God. They all were very good about leaving us hanging, almost nothing about the problems within TWI were explained, therefore no reconciliation was needed in their minds I suppose. Those they got rid of were given the bum’s rush, slandered and forgotten, those leaders wanted no reconciliation anyway. Those in the offshoots offered no answers or explanations either….and exhibited no guilt, even if they had formerly ACTIVELY participated in the demise of their brothers and sisters in the twi years.. He's definitely drinking the Kool-Aid again, maybe drinking his own Kool-Aid. :blink:

Jeffsio, Although your post came off a little condescending, your point of waitng till the Lord gives you revelation, word of wisdom, or inspiration?? concerning TWI Adultry doctrine is absurd. I would say almost all if not every single person here on this board either was told of it by someone else or read about it. One of the reasons many have posted here thanking Paw and RD about this interview is because he shared things we did not know concerning those involved in such practices in '86-'88. Go preach your censorship somewhere else. I do wonder when it all started with Craig, #1 because it became so destructive, #2 he still feels that it's right, #3 He started as a Baptist and new it was wrong, #4 It uncovers the incidewous nature of old Vee Pee to spin his web and elevate his sin to the spiritual doctrine level, corrupting and hurting the body of Christ to no end, still to this day! My inquiry may not matter to you...fine...but we don't need attempts to supress opinions and iquiries here when they are asked to find out and unravel the real truth. Are you referring to critisizing Craig and asking him to his face about his views on adultry? Someone has already done that and it is posted on this site. Your post is a little hard to follow...

I seem to recall hearing on either a teaching tape, or on a WC promo video about how early on vp broke lcm of his religeous southern baptist upbringing, craig likend it to a ice cube melting on a hot stove when he finally saw things vpee's way. I've wondered if this is when he accepted vp's adultery practices. (edited for clarity)

Good point Excie, I just finished reading the 37 page letter, alot of it was based on the asssumption that veepee was some sort of mog who had authority as such, including his literal according to usage meanings...the document was obviously written before it was figured out that he was a mass marketing plagerist with an upfront fascade but rotten at the core, and before we understood we were worshipping men in the TWI hierarchy system....

Thanks Paw for putting up those links. Does anyone here know if the Jalvis 3 hour tape of "overview of Events" that covers this time period offers more information? Is there anywhere it can be accessed and listened to on the net? Is there a transcript somewhere?

I was someone as well who never really knew what the fog was till I came here a year and a half ago. If the believers I've been around knew, they certainly weren't discussing it or telling me about it. Thank God for this website, it has brought great deliverance and peace to me and others. It is important to keep this site going to preserve the information here for those who haven't found it yet and for those who are searching for answers. Paw, if anyone is ever to take over here, they must be endued with your intents and modus operandi. I have been a part of web boards that have changed for the worse when they are either inherited by relatives or taken over by others. We appreciate what you do here, let us know if we can do something for you?

Thanks Ralph and Paw! I am amazed and disgusted that so many were involved in this destructive lifestyle, and how deep the deciet and coverup went, as well as the befuddlement and inability of those in charge to move through it successfully to the other side. Amazing how crusty and lost some of them really were, and how much we, the rank and file, were unaware and in the dark on the big picture. Too bad more information concerning G*ere's role, actions, behavior, hasn't been known, especially to those who follow him now, he's still a bit of an enigma. Kudo's to Pat Lynn, there were so few who made that effort, I'm so glad she had Ralph there.

In a court of law, an eye witness' story/opinion/viewpoint is given a lot of creedence.

From my breif research of his philosphy from about two weeks ago, I found that he had some good ideas about managing stress, and anxiety in his live in the moment instruction, beyond that, it looks like he propounds Buddhist concepts. For me, I don't really want to go much deeper than gleaning techniques to reduce stress.

Nice summation here by Raf from the first page of this thread. Too bad vp couldn't have just stopped there and claimed that he put it together only and gave credit to his sources.

Rottie Girl, do what makes you happy, this is a preference choice, if you live in a major city like LA or NYC, this kind of thing is so common it's laughable. I think its great there are more affordable options for people who want a less invasive procedure than face lift SURGERY. What's interesting is that there is now a whole industry abroad that caters to Western men and women who want to have cosmetic surgery, which isn't usually covered by insurance, at a great savings, it's even got a name, it's called medical tourism. You pay pennies on the dollar to have procedures done, breast reconstruction and implants, nose jobs, face lifts, etc, by Md's, many of which were trained in the USA or UK. Here's a CNN link: http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/02/magazines/....biz2/index.htm

Good point Paw, I wonder if there are any posters here who are/were JW's? It just seems mightly fishy that old vp actually really studied something other than memorizing certain verses. Since his delivery is shallow and not very well fleshed out, it stands to reason he did plagerize his JCNG stuff. I wonder if the LDS church's viewpoint of JC our brother was part of what was plagerized too?

Sounds like you want a virgin Mai Tai, sans the banana. Have you thought of banana, pineapple, and orange skewars/toothpics on the side? What kind of barware are you using for this drink? The banana is the odd ingredient in the mix if you are intending to use fresh bananas. Now if you are using the italian style banana flavored syrup which are non-alcoholic, like the ones used to flavor coffee drinks, then you can pretty much duplicate the flavor of any tropical drink that is served in any bar in hawaii or the bahamas. Do a google search of "tropical drink recipes with banana orange pineapple", and you'll come up with a lot of ideas. Most bar recipes are set up on a 1:2 or 1:3 and so on proportions, so any single drink can be easily duplicated for larger amounts. If you look at nonvirgin drinks, the alcohol portion can always be substituted with club soda, ginger ale, sprite, etc. For punches, scoops of sorbets of pineapple, orange or banana or sherbet can be floated on top as well as orange slices, pineapple rings, etc. I suggest testing them out though. You can also go to any good bartender and ask him to invent a drink for you using those ingredients. Click Here for Banana Syrup Virgin Mai Tai List of Ingredients 1/2 cup pineapple juice 1/4 cup club soda 1 tbsp. grenadine 1/4 cup orange juice 1 tbsp. cream of coconut Shake or stir to blend and pour over crushed ice. ....... Hope this helps, good luck!

Since it's been proven that VP lied about the gas pumps story and God talking to him, which was a plagerism from someone else's story, I have to take everything else he said about his "discoveries" in God's Word with a grain of salt. A leopard doesn't change its spots overnight, once a liar.... So what he said about himself studying to document the Trinity and seeing the oposite proven, doesn't hold water with me, I question how much he ever studied once he founded TWI. I do know he read other's works and copied them word for word, and plagerized what other's preached as well.

I have read some of the archival threads here regarding TWI's JCNG doctrine where many have come to the conclusion that VP started teaching it to have greater controll over his followers and to keep them from leaving the fold and going to other churches. My question is, does anyone know the history behind VP's changing from a Trinitarian to an Anti-Trinitarian viewpoint? I've read that his SNS tape #295 teaching is where the idea behind the JCNG book got started, and the BRC had crosses on the podium in the early days of the ministry. Was VP really convinced that JCNG or was it a marketing ploy that fit with his other plagerized content? If VP's change was genuine, what was the progression in changing his viewpoint so dramatically? You would think being Trinitarian would be a cornerstone belief for a minister, how could he do such an about face on such a primary theory, or was it strickly a marketing move?