now I see

Got another hint?

Correct! Your turn!

Elevating man and the actions of men was the creedo of twi, the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree when you have your roots seated in the pride of man, it easy to see where such a person might be puffed up with all their "right" action, at least in their own eyes, arrogance, another twi trademark. Pride goeth before a fall....good verse...

"And it's delicious!" "Sure is! Perks up anything from an ice cream sundae to a pumpkin pie!" "Made from an exclusive non-yellowing formula. " "I haven't even touched my pudding and I'm ready for more! " "But what about black heel marks? " "Dirt, grime, even black heel marks, wipe clean with a damp mop. " [ Husband accidentally sprays Shimmer onto the floor ] "Oh, sorry, honey, I'll clean that up! " "Oh, no problem, sweetheart, not with new Shimmer!"

Nope, not the right one yet, here's a little more.. "Give me the water, Mary," he said. I approached him with the now only half-filled glass; Pilot followed me, still excited. "What is the matter?" he inquired. "Down, Pilot!" I again said. He checked the water on its way to his lips, and seemed to listen: he drank, and put the glass down. "This is you, Mary, is it not?" "Mary is in the kitchen," I answered. He put out his hand with a quick gesture, but not seeing where I stood, he did not touch me. "Who is this? Who is this?" he demanded, trying, as it seemed, to SEE with those sightless eyes-- unavailing and distressing attempt! "Answer me--speak again!" he ordered, imperiously and aloud. "Will you have a little more water, sir? I spilt half of what was in the glass," I said. "WHO is it? WHAT is it? Who speaks?" "Pilot knows me, and John and Mary know I am here. I came only this evening," I answered. "Great God!--what delusion has come over me? What sweet madness has seized me?" "No delusion--no madness: your mind, sir, is too strong for delusion, your health too sound for frenzy." "And where is the speaker? Is it only a voice? Oh! I CANNOT see, but I must feel, or my heart will stop and my brain burst. Whatever--whoever you are--be perceptible to the touch or I cannot live!" He groped; I arrested his wandering hand, and prisoned it in both mine. "Her very fingers!" he cried; "her small, slight fingers! If so there must be more of her." The muscular hand broke from my custody; my arm was seized, my shoulder--neck--waist--I was entwined and gathered to him. "Is it ...? WHAT is it? This is her shape--this is her size--" "And this her voice," I added. "She is all here: her heart, too. God bless you, sir! I am glad to be so near you again." ----- In listening, I sobbed convulsively; for I could repress what I endured no longer; I was obliged to yield, and I was shaken from head to foot with acute distress. When I did speak, it was only to express an impetuous wish that I had never been born, or never come to .... "Because you are sorry to leave it?" The vehemence of emotion, stirred by grief and love within me, was claiming mastery, and struggling for full sway, and asserting a right to predominate, to overcome, to live, rise, and reign at last: yes,--and to speak. "I grieve to leave...: I love Thorn...:- I love it, because I have lived in it a full and delightful life,--momentarily at least. I have not been trampled on. I have not been petrified. I have not been buried with inferior minds, and excluded from every glimpse of communion with what is bright and energetic and high. I have talked, face to face, with what I reverence, with what I delight in,--with an original, a vigorous, an expanded mind. I have known you; and it strikes me with terror and anguish to feel I absolutely must be torn from you for ever. I see the necessity of departure; and it is like looking on the necessity of death." "No: you must stay! I swear it--and the oath shall be kept." "I tell you I must go!" I retorted, roused to something like passion. "Do you think I can stay to become nothing to you? Do you think I am an automaton?--a machine without feelings? and can bear to have my morsel of bread snatched from my lips, and my drop of living water dashed from my cup? Do you think, because I am poor, obscure, plain, and little, I am soulless and heartless? You think wrong!--I have as much soul as you,--and full as much heart! And if God had gifted me with some beauty and much wealth, I should have made it as hard for you to leave me, as it is now for me to leave you. I am not talking to you now through the medium of custom, conventionalities, nor even of mortal flesh;--it is my spirit that addresses your spirit; just as if both had passed through the grave, and we stood at God's feet, equal,--as we are!" "As we are!" ..."so," he added, enclosing me in his arms. Gathering me to his breast, pressing his lips on my lips: "so...!" "Yes, so, sir," I rejoined: "and yet not so; for you are a married man--or as good as a married man, and wed to one inferior to you--to one with whom you have no sympathy--whom I do not believe you truly love; for I have seen and heard you sneer at her. I would scorn such a union: therefore I am better than you--let me go!"

Cocoon?

"And it's delicious! " "Sure is! Perks up anything from an ice cream sundae to a pumpkin pie! " "Made from an exclusive non-yellowing formula. " "I haven't even touched my pudding and I'm ready for more! "

Nope.....

It was the casualty figures that sealed it, I remember that episode. I'll be back shortly to post a new set of quotes..

Here's a hint, Purple has it within the first two, but the third is not quite right yet.

He put out his hand with a quick gesture, but not seeing where I stood, he did not touch me. "Who is this? Who is this?" he demanded, trying, as it seemed, to SEE with those sightless eyes-- unavailing and distressing attempt! "Answer me--speak again!" he ordered, imperiously and aloud. "Will you have a little more water, sir? I spilt half of what was in the glass," I said. "WHO is it? WHAT is it? Who speaks?" "Pilot knows me, and John and Mary know I am here. I came only this evening," I answered. "Great God!--what delusion has come over me? What sweet madness has seized me?" "No delusion--no madness: your mind, sir, is too strong for delusion, your health too sound for frenzy." "And where is the speaker? Is it only a voice? Oh! I CANNOT see, but I must feel, or my heart will stop and my brain burst. Whatever--whoever you are--be perceptible to the touch or I cannot live!"

Valley of the Dolls, Jacqueline Susann?

24?

Wd, you are exhibiting the same calousness that those twi who were throwing people out exhibited. Not everyone reacts the same way, your arguments all point toward you telling us they should have acted like you. It is illogical to think all people would react the same way to the same circumstances, given that we all have different backgrounds. Many have described being kicked out of their corps assignment and thrown out of the corps was like going through a divorce, being betrayed by the person you still love. You couldn't possible think that every person reacts the same to this, we know they don't, yet you would have us believe they should have acted like you did regarding a non similar event with twi in your life. In previous threads you often don't believe anything anyone else says if you didn't experience it yourself, you did not experience this. You likening twi cu giving back your checking acct to someone loosing their life's calling while being defrocked in a town they never would have been in save their assignment similar? You have no authority to logically comment on this thread, you can spout in an angry misguided huff whatever you want to here, but you have no basis of anything close to what people experienced who actually were kicked out did. Wow, it makes all your posts here look like a farce....which they are.

wd, what you did here is flame baiting, this thread was being used as a vent for peoples emotions after listening to a disturbing pod cast, and you've turned that venting into a flame war. Not very brotherly on your part, to carry on like this here, given the nature of the preceeding thread, talk about using scripture as a club.... I believe you knew what you were doing... From dictionary.die.net: flame baiting: A Usenet posting or other message intended to trigger a flame war, or one that invites flames in reply.

That sounds familiar, but that's not it.....

"Knocked Up" Geez! (edited for sp)

ok, Nog/bath not Macbeth, I'm grabbing at straws here, Norbit?

No, it really doesn't matter how he became that way, he was a bad, bad man, a disgustingly vile, dead, low life. Guys like him who end up in prison get killed by the other prisoners for raping minors. No matter how he got there, he made a choice in his life to become an abuser like the ones who abused him, rather than becoming a healer, it was his choice, he failed miserably. The con of being a minister was so good, so perfected, it does a mind funk on you to try to reconcile the portrayed image vs. what he actually was. He was so good at fooling us, it makes you wonder how it ever happened......

"INCEST is the more accurate term to accurately describe the depravity of his sexual predation of twi followers...........this is especially understandable when one considers the impact INCEST had on vic personally, both as victim and perpetrator, in his own "earthly" family!........and, to you vic apologists out there, the "proof" you will demand is available from vic's own lips regarding his role as perpetrator, and you're free to do your own "research" regarding his experiences as an incest victim........the "evidence" was volunteered to me by two most unexpected yet equally reliable sources!...." The con was so good. He fooled us all....in reality he was so far from the image he projected. I still struggle coming to grips with how low and disgusting he really was...because of the cunning, precision of his con, he purposely chose to project an image of himself that was lightyears away from the vile slime he truely was, I was oblivious to it. It is amazing how he allowed himself to sink so low. He must have been conditioned from a child on how to be, on the outside, a good front, no wonder the con was so good by the time we came along.

I believe it was initially reported on Waydale, but you can also look it up at this website's search engine.

He left his church in Van Wert because he, in fact, did get his secretary pregnant while he was the pastor there while being married with children. I believe he must have been forced out because of it. I never heard him say anything good about those church leaders, and in fact, he stated that religion is one of the cruelest institutions in the world; misdirected anger. My recollection of public things he said about Dorthia were positive, although I never understood why certain people would say women wanted to be like her and should aspire to be like her or use her as a model. She was very quiet and reserved, didn't display very much emotion, which I attributed to her rural Ohio upbringing and culture, rarely said anything publically and it was evident that she had given up a lot to support her husband. I'm sure those living at Hq's had more interaction w/her and saw more, I only lived there for a short time post vp. I recollect that he spoke of giving away JP, I think to a relative when he was 6 months old, depite Dorthia's and Don's objections, when they all went to India, other than that I can't think of him ever effusing or emoting over his kids. Someone here posted a while back they thought it was vp's mom who was the source of his sociopathic behavior, although the details are limited and sketchy. He must have been abused or regularly exposed to an abuser as a young person to be that bold and so good at hiding it. It took long time before any of us on a large-scale knew about vp's predilections, he had fortified himself at twi with so many of his henchmen and handlers, those who covered for him and who also indulged with him. Perhaps the only ones who really know of his family's legacy and origins for abuse are his surviving relatives.

I'm so sorry (((excie))), I wish he had been outed before he died so that his vicitims could get some public justice. I guess he'll get it in the end.

born in 1916, died in '85, he was 69 then, so 58-59 years old in 1974-75, he was definitely a serial predator. He should have been sent to jail for life, and had all his money given to his victims, or at least drawn and quartered. Howard Allen is still alive, I wonder if he's still liable for what went on under the auspices of twi?