now I see

BTW, Kudos to Paw for closing down that thread!

He's trying the same tactic over in the Open Forum on the "Word" thread. He just tried to bait me into a sham fight, and is trying to flame Cman and Dot into two other mock nonsensical circular arguements too. What's the definition of Insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get different results each time? Trolls need to be on a leash. WE SHOULD STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS. They like to be mocked though, and outed, really, I'm serious...try it. <_<

I love it that you are trying so hard to draw Dot Matrix into another nonsensical fight, and me too, with no basis or logical progression on either one of them. I hope she doesn't take the bait seriously, she should respond, and mock you for your attempt to start another flame war mock fight over nothing.... Good try though, funny to watch you tap dance so much.... Cheers!

WhiteDove- What I wrote above was in regard to Abi's originating post on this thread, she's the one who says she doesn't like labels, I just pointed out she uses them too, when it fits her opinions-that's all. If you want to know what I think - I LIKE LABELS. In fact I like using wierewill apologist, I think it is perfect for any biblical discussion. I enjoyed it when wierewill apologists get outed too, in fact I've been known to gloat over it. Game over try again, WD...... Have a nice day. :)

OMG! The first thing I see is those god awful pictures of vp and Loy! I don't even know how I justified aligning myself with those weasels for all those years. Both of them deserve a fate worse than death, maybe hard time in a federal penitentiary. The gross out factor is way high when you visit that page and the first thing you see is their ugly mugs. Good luck with that zwebrick, I am truely embarassed I was ever a part of that god forsaken organization. You should put up a picture of Loy in his Athletes of the spirit uniform with those short, short hotpants he wears with the thick shin high athletic socks...king Okie alright!

Remember, in order to screw in a new light bulb, you must first cast the beam out of your own eye....

Abi-This is a quote from you in the "Boot the Wierewill Apologists" thread said to Groucho, if you still feel this way, then you are miles away from what we are saying. I agree with WordWolf too. You also assigned motivation to Groucho which you have no way of knowing, and I believe you assessed him wrongly and implied he has a character fault for starting that thread, which I believe you were wrong for doing that too, it seems you assign labels to people pretty freely too, when it suites you, the very thing you're outcrying against others. If our little system worked, the Losing the Way thread involving WhiteDove wouldn't have upset so many contributing posters, it needs to be tweaked, it is our forum too, problems need to be discussed, rather than swept under the rug behind closed doors, changes need to be fine tuned. You were not involved with that thread, nor could you possibly know how rough it got, you are on a completely different plain in this discussion. I think you are argueing a point that doesn't really apply here to the former specific incident, which is where we are all coming from.

Ha Ha ha ha ha! Good one Rocky!!

thought I needed to add a picture to this one.

Drat! Guess I looked in the wrong place, it is unfortunate that they still have it there.

Ham, I noticed the old link on the CFF website for Sower's farm website has miraculously disappeared! I wonder why?

I tell you, its been nice without him, since WD's been gone. There's been a whole thread of personal story telling in the "Ten years Ago" thread with no interjections of attacks, and endless debating of the authenticity of the poster's comments, or with the word police natzi whining on the choices of words used by the rebutters. It is really quite annoying to contend with that everytime someone does a big sharing.

That is so the pot calling the kettle black, I know for a fact LCM was a real pervert in relationship to WC's family, he has a lot to answer for, like his "father" in the word will, what a sham, LCM is so lucky that he's not spending the next 20 years in a federal penitentiary.

I don't agree with that assesment of it being used as a slur, it identifies a poster's MO. I couldn't find a negative definition of the word apologist anywhere from any reputable source. Websters trumps wikiwiki. Most everyone here has no problem with the vpw apologists stating their beliefs, we have said that ad infinitum, what the issue is - the attack mode, all wierwille apologists are not created equal, they all don't respond like WD, ranting on the use of the word apologist was a lame point to begin a tirade, if anyone used the words, anti-wierwilist apologist term to describe the other side of the coin, I assure you, no one would have objected to that usage. I think attempting to police the GS community at large's choice of words like this is a form of censorship spawned by someone who likes to pick fights and derail threads and panders to a bully. This minutia is getting tiring, lets agree to disagree, ok? No hard feelings. :)

Too bad the court cases were settled and not persued to the length of the law. It would be irrefutable evidence that there's a heart of darkness at twi.

Again, I'm not mentioning banning WD unless he acts out again and self destructs by defying decency, I am not trying to change your mind, I am simlply expressing the facts, I was a first hand witness to it, you were not, you don't have to believe what any of us here who read the original thread have to say about it. Think whatever you want, but remember some thought favorably toward Lucyvanpelt in this very thread, untill they witnessed the lengths of what that poster is capable of. I think immediate banning is off the table here, for now. And Abi, the change opinion comment was not specifically directed toward you. Also, I object to the villification of the word "apologist", the meaning of which has been tweaked to further an argument plucked out of thin air. This is the example one of the posters used as the definition of "apologist", he did not make it clear it was taken from Wikipedia and only a portion from a heading called "Coloquial Usage". A lot of people just simply, bought into it - that this is a real definition, which it is not. Colloquial usage Today the term "apologist" is colloquially applied in a general manner to include groups and individuals systematically promoting causes, justifying orthodoxies, or denying certain events, even of crimes. Apologists have been characterized as being deceptive, or "whitewashing" their cause, primarily through omission of negative facts (selective perception) and exaggeration of positive ones, techniques of classical rhetoric. When used in this context, the term often has a pejorative meaning. This is a excerpt from a previous post of mine: "[This is from]... freakin Wikipedia!!!! Since when is that an authoritative source! There are fields of study in divinity schools called apologetics, just like there’s homiletics, [the].. definition doesn’t wash. It’s almost like [it was] ..cherry picked [and is].. the worse definition [one] could possibly find. It isn’t even a definition of the word from a dictionary source, it is a colloquial adaptation, The following definitions, from genuine real dictionaries, are listed in their ENTIRETY from each source with nothing left out. MERRIAM-WEBSTER’S defines Apologist as: apologist Main Entry: apol•o•gist Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpä-lə-jist\ Function: noun Date: 1640 : one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something Apologist A*pol"o*gist\, n. [Cf. F. apologiste.] One who makes an apology; one who speaks or writes in defense of a faith, a cause, or an institution; especially, one who argues in defense of Christianity. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary. From Dictionary.com: a•pol•o•gist [uh-pol-uh-jist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a person who makes a defense in speech or writing of a belief, idea, etc. 2. Ecclesiastical. a. Also, a•pol•o•gete Audio Help [uh-pol-uh-jeet] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. a person skilled in apologetics. b. one of the authors of the early Christian apologies in defense of the faith. [Origin: 1630–40; apolog(y) + -ist or < F apologiste] Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary From American Heritage Dictionary: a•pol•o•gist Audio Help (ə-pŏl'ə-jĭst) Pronunciation Key n. A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition From Wordnet: apologist noun a person who argues to defend or justify some policy or institution; "an apologist for capital punishment" WordNet® 3.0" I am simply stating the facts, change your mind if you want, don't if you don't.

I watched it last nite, it was a very realistic looking account of what happens, I presume it is, although I have nothing to base it on since I don't work in the acute medical field. It struck me as a huge burden to bear if you're the surgeon having to deal with losing lives and explaining the facts to the families. I felt it was a little voyeristic filming the reaction the parents had when the Dr's told them their child was likely to die, I had to change the channel for a moment when the mom started to cry, it hit a little too close to home on that one. I thought it was great though when they put the new heart in the child and it started beating as soon as they unclamped the arteries. I am usually pretty squeemish when it comes to people blood and guts, and usually refuse to watch operations on tv, but that was amazing to see the new heart come to life.

I am willing to give the old curmudgeon another chance, it is obviously Paw's will too, since WD is still here, but I am not willing to let him play in the fields of GS by harrassing viewpoints he doesn't like and playing us all for fools. Banning is the end point for any troll, I didn't even mention banning in the last post, I wonder why you put it in your rebuttal to me? And NO, Groucho simply mentioned "wierewille apologists" and WD started his hissy fit rant over the use of the word apologist and wierewille used in conjuction of eachother, an inane argumentitive ploy, pure, raw, flamebaiting.

I too would like to know how the progression of the deception grew from free spirited old man hippie sex among singles, to the distortion of - it is required of men of god to be able to love people, it is required among women in order to be healed, to the cynical climax of - lets just get as much sex as possible, make it a secret sect and do whatever it takes to silence any dissenters even to the destruction of souls, ladderclimb up the organization and forget about this bible stuff unless we need to use it to better our position or as a club to rule over people. Socks, I would think you would have known about it because of your job description, and your access to the high ranking leaders, backroom people, etc. I know you didn't, but I would have thought all Joyful Noiser's would have been aware? It must have been a known quanity of who didn't fit the profile for such letchery. They say sexual predators have a sixth sense for smelling out a new victim or one whose been previously victimized, maybe it also works for them smelling out who is just like them and who'd make a good predator and philanderer. Maybe DontWorry can weigh in on this one too since he was there, rubbed shoulders with these guys too, and I can imagine, friends with some of them too.

I find it ironic that the ones decrying this thread and labeling the posters here who have a strong opinion about it and WD are the ones who were not a part of the "losing the way" thread and only read it after WD's posts were deleted. You do have the right to voice your opinion here, but you really didn't see and read what happened on that thread. Maybe if you had been witness to what WD posted you might have changed your opinion. What WD did was the difference between heckling at a kids birthday party vs heckling at a funeral, it was inappropriate, callous, and harrassing. He disrupted the whole thread and silenced any posters who were expressing the opposing viewpoint. If a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear it, then does it make a sound? WD's tree fell, we heard it, we don't want any more trees falling here.

Interesting story Avondale, you had a bumpy start.

Hi Equil- Good story, how did your 4 year old dance on the stove with 3 burners in use? Just curious, she must be very agile. I bumped into another one of your stories a while back on your "Spirits in the Garage" thread, you have very interesting stories and a certain way with words.

Makes you wonder how many positions and ordinations were filled that way, it was quite the big scam in touting those in charge as being someone "spiritual".

You're up!