potato

same here, motherof2! I look forward to reading your perspective.

twi habitually inflated numbers. I found that out coming back from my wow year when big top announcements were made about how many people had been blessed. the twi "truth" was that marriages were saved and people were delivered by the class, but the real truth was that the same people who's supposed deliverance was used to pad the numbers had turned their backs in disgust or disillusionment. of the many people who took the class and came to twig, not one in our city decided to hang with twi. yet, twi decided they'd been blessed. "blessed" is a relative term.

gotta jump in, waysider, cuz I was the one who started with the objection to God's motives as stated by motherof2 I didn't take exception to the word "use", actually... it was this statement: "His first objective is to glorify Himself and He does everything He does to honor Himself and only He knows how He will get the most glory." I do agree that we should give God the glory... but I guess I want to know, really know, what does the bible means when it says glory? I know there are references all over to God's glory, so if we glorify God, are we not simply reflecting his love and light back to him and to each other? then he doesn't glorify himself, but he is the source of the glory. I've puzzled on this and I just don't know, but whatever it is, I believe WG is right that its lack is why healing doesn't happen in twi anymore. it's much deeper than God doing stuff to honor himself and glorify himself... but maybe I over-reacted because of my extensive experience with pathological narcissists... I don't want to believe that God is one!

weird, we heard something totally different on the field, and from LCM himself. I appreciate how much work it was, I was very thankful for everyone who put in long long days to make it happen even after the oppressive overtones took the joy out of going.

T-bone, I also figured CK was making another sweeping generalization about people thinking and how awful bad that is, but it's really comical that he directed it at you considering what he's revealed of his character and inability to weight facts, and the fact his posts are almost unreadable, which is so totally not your fault. it's easy to make mistakes about what he's trying to say, the only thing you can count on it seems is that it will be hateful.

I decided to watch the RoA 93 clip to see if I saw anyone I knew. background music for the day before opening: Devo, Pink Pussycat background music for opening day: Devo, Triumph of the Will music faded just in time to hear mrs. vpw say "it's good to be home again" somehow it was perfect... icky feelings aside, I think killing RoA was what killed any love left in twi. it effectively isolated everyone to their local areas and brought communications down the tree under complete control. Lord Loy said it was because the teenagers were experimenting with bdsm on grounds. I think it's really because he realized there was no way to control so many people gathering in one place like that and he couldn't stand people talking together... they might realize how corrupt things were getting and I'm not talking about kids messing around.

thanks Groucho

I have your book on my amazon wishlist... I could only buy one book for christmas so it was "enough about you, let's talk about me"... had to get that, it's a guidebook for dealing with narcissists and I need a lot of healing in that category. I'm looking forward to reading your book because I'm moving beyond the wholesale distrust I have of anything "christian" and feeling ready to compare spiritual things with spiritual... and figure out what, if any, of twi doctrines line up with what the bible actually says, or if there's even enough scripture to even form an opinion on some of what twi called biblical doctrine... I have a feeling that a lot of what they said the "Word" says will actually crumble completely to the point of "no doctrine available" and I'll throw it in my "hold it in abatement" drawer (one of the only useful things I ever learned in twi, btw.)

Raf, thanks for supplying the biblical term: seared conscience. it so aptly describes CK. while he does evil, he calls it good.

I know this post isn't to me, but I just wanted to say God bless them for their meekness! I wish them the best, it's good to hear people are breaking the chains. thank you for posting it in public so I can rejoice.

wow, everyone! he finally answered the question so many have posed, "why are you here?" and the official answer is GS is a repository for his hate! I guess if he deposits it here he can hide his true self from the people he supposedly teaches the "Word" to. they'll never know this double life he leads, pretending to be the bishop as described in Titus (and expounded up by Mr. V. P. Wierwille in his study guide "order my steps in thy word" chapter 4) with his alleged flock of like-minded robots while his real self comes out in secret, someone so full of hate that he has to pour it out here upon people he judges worthy only of disdain (did he get all his information about us by revelation I wonder, in order to make his god-like pronouncements regarding our spiritual standing with God?). CK, according to vpw, I thought leaders were supposed to act the same way everyone (i.e. temperate (mastery of self) and to exhort and convince the gainsayers, not by hate, but by "sound doctrine and errorless teaching"... but see, there is such an error in your practice because the responsibility to confront comes with the adherence to vpw's "family faith" which most of us care nothing for, having left it far behind on our path of personal growth. therefore, your confrontation is a waste of everyone's time. someone in your position should be good to all but especially good to your own little "household". I don't see you doing good here at all, just venting hate. I have never read in the bible or in vpw's books that it's ok to do that. I agree with many people who tried to point out the right path to you early on, which is to post in other sections of the bbs instead of "About the Way". they graciously pointed out that ATW is for people exploring and recovering from their relationship with twi. your predilection for argument would find a better venue in "doctrinal". I'm still laughing... the delusional can be entertaining from a distance... but people who are motivated by hate are a complete waste of time and the boredom I feel toward you and your histrionics has taken root pretty firmly in my soul, to the point that even if you say something interesting and apparently loving I'd probably make fun of you, so I think I'll ignore you now.

man, CK, this just about laid me out on the floor, I was laughing so hard! you are pretty far off the mark, since I haven't felt one iota of anything approaching anger over your posts. why should I? "the real issues" as you see them aren't a concern for me. "the true meaning" of my life is between me and God, and I don't remember either of us inviting you to the discussion. I'm not inclined to look for any anger that I never felt when I responded to any of your ramblings, believe me I was looking for entertainment only but now I think I'm bored because you don't say anything insightful or fresh. hate doesn't intrigue me.

in an attempt to understand CK, I went back and read his posts from earlier this year... he seemed to have started out friendly and open (was it a ruse?) and all of a sudden started attacking people. once he made the excuse that he was having a bad day and asked forgiveness (which was graciously granted), but the apparently nice guy seemed to vaporize pretty quickly. what gives, CK? was it an act, or did you get your feelings hurt and decide to lash out, call names, and embrace your hate forever after?

well, one thing to consider is it's easier to divide and conquer. getting the kids off by themselves and couples separated means you can indoctrinate without much interference.

I was thinking of a different Mike, 23 years old with a similar username somewhere else.

I would sure love to know why God gave us 5 senses and feelings. why did he waste our time with that? if no one gives me a good reason, I'm going to quit using them. I'm not going to waste my time any further with such misleading sensory input as what I see in front of my face or read or hear, and screw that whole "wow that's kinda hot" bullcrud! nor are my built-in responses to any of it worthy of my attention! from now on, I'm going to live wholey by the spirit!! God, where's that "enter" key?

agreed. CK leaves a lot of context out and speaks in generalities, which tends to be boring... I also have a request for you CK: read up on prepositions and how they're used... and another request: until you learn the basics of grammar, punctuation, and usage, could you refrain from any further attepts to infuse philosophical turns of phrase into your passages? they don't make you appear "deep" or "interesting".

wouldn't that be funny? doubt it though, CK is too "good" for the kind of friends Mike describes. ... although, I don't think we can rule out a split personality.

I just can't get behind such a mercenary picture of God. I truly believe the verse that says God is Love, and a God who is out solely to garner glory to himself doesn't paint a picture of Love.

I know! I was totally guessing at what he meant when I replied. it's awesome in its convoluted redundancy and misuse.

I was healed from a physical infirmity at my first RoA. it was before leadership got their claws into me and sucked the life out of me, when my only experience was my original wow family and then a twig that had a lot of love for God. no one ministered to me, I asked God what was wrong with me and he told me! I do believe in healings and I will never pretend to understand why some are miraculous and some don't appear to be, or why some that I think should happen, don't.

it's very empowering to really look at the playground bully's attack and realize there is nothing of substance in there at all. I'm just practicing my skillz and having some fun. in twi, someone like CK would be coddled and praised for his ability to discern, and would be given free reign to terrorize the innocent at will. I would've been quaking in my boots. now, I just think he's sad and stunted. if someone wants to personally attack me or someone I respect, I'm just not inclined to be my usual sweet, loving and kind self! still, I'm happy that someone else is entertained as well, although I assure you, my motive is healing the part of me who never stood up to losers like CK

thanks for checking with your therapist, but I already have one who is familiar with cults and the domestic abuse which runs rampant in them. well, that's very Christian of you! so you're here looking for a way to feel powerful? I haven't seen you be loving on this board, so I'm ignorant of any experience you have with having your purported kindness thrown back at you. however, I question your motives, as they seem very immature. you're clearly inclined to practice love and kindness only to get something in return, rather than because it's a good life policy to be kind, and our Father in heaven is Love. instead you choose to live hatefully so that you can predict how people will respond... kindness is very risky for the insecure. that's a simple statement, I'm sure I'm not the only one who had some hard lessons to learn coming out of twi culture. are they? do they bow down toward your awesome knowledge of the Word according to vpw? do they ever, ever question or disagree? I bet they don't. it's so very easy to love people when they are a reflection of you. yep... so? the truth has set me free, baby!

I can't quite bring myself to use the ignore button yet, there's still some entertainment value there.