Allan

Evan..I believe the 'meaning' is interchangable in the NT as are other words like baptism etc..

Except that Mormons go to 'Mormon heaven' and everyone else goes to a 'differnt heaven' or to the 'kingdom of Harlem ghetto' !! And how does one get to 'Mormon heaven', please tell !

What can I say ??

Well actually no Evan..I was 'christened' Church of England and then Catholic as a baby and it did squat for me, as I'm sure for the other 'millions' as well (including Mafioso babies) !! In Acts you have for instance the Word being spoken to Cornelius and his household by Simon Peter and they got born again. I'm sure in those Words would have been something pertaining to the 'risen Christ' etc.. Well again Mark..we go around in circles because of the debate over water baptism or spirit baptism ! And I don't believe a baby can be 'baptised' as such. The child is sanctified by their believing Dad or Mom til they are of age to get 'born again', otherwise they are still 'unclean.' 1 Corinthians 7: 14

Ummm..eternal life.

Correct me if I'm wrong Def but VPW used to say" if we have a roof over our heads, food in the cupboard and good health, we should be so thankful" I agree that the churches you mentioned are guilty of what you said. I like what Pat Robertson said "If a believer today expects to have all the wealth of the Jobs and Abrahams etc.. then that is irresponsible thinking, better is a little with godly contentment etc.."

Oakspear..I was not a Christian nor any other type of believer. Work, family etc.. Def59..thanks for the advice..After leaving twi I went to 'numerous' other churches and denominations. JWs', Mormons (had relatives that were)..etc..was 'christened' Church of England,brought up Catholic, etc.. I even went to a 'universalist' unitarian church ! Thanx anyway but I'm still more than 'wrapped' with pfiffle !!

So Mark..when do the Catholics actually 'baptise' ?? I can't recall seeing one yet, unless you mean a little babies 'christening' ??!! And Templelady..what does one do to get to the 'Mormon heaven' ??

Interested to see Mark and Templelady display their respective churches views on 'attaining salvation'.

Thats just the 'nature of the beast' here Jet. I just wish the Belles of 'the spot' would be a little bit more honest.They have just as many 'labels' they spew forth..'twi.ts' 'twi.tsville' 'pfiffle' etc.. don't let it get to you, I don't.

Ummm.How about "confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead,you SHALL be saved. Fits in with 'grace' not works doesn't it. So..what is the Catholics idea of 'getting saved ?' What is the Mormon idea of 'getting saved ?'

Came into PFAL with eyes wide open, happily married, no former beliefs. Loved it (and still do). Greatest truths to 'come down the pike' ! I believe they still are. Still using the keys for successful living outside of twi.

The 'keys' Oakspear are SIMPLE too !!

Well Mark..usually because people confessed Jesus as Lord etcc..before they were led into s.i.t. BTW Mark..what is the Catholic formula for getting people saved ?? Interested.

Just keep it simple Evan (and others) "Jesus is God but not the Father.".so he is only PART God ?? You just show the ludicrousness of these 'skewered' teachings. Like the Mormons, Catholics and other denominations..the further they get from the simplicity of the Word, the bigger the 'hole' they dig.

Yes Jetc57..truth is simple, Jesus came to 'uncomplicate life'.That is why I will be eternally greatful to have learnt 'simple truths' from the ministry of VPW whilst I was involved , no matter where he 'copied' differn't ideas from or how bright the lightbulbs were during his filming of pfal ( wordwolf and Oenophile will get what I mean !!)

I left because of 'hypocricy'. I can take virtually anything else thrown at me. If I'm 'hard out for the Lord', I expect my 'elders' to be as well. And while we're (sort of) on the topic..isn't it interesting that the John of Revelation (supposed to be the one who leant on Jesus breast during passover meal) wasn't doing any 'hugging' in Revelation !! rather, he fell out of awe at the feet of Jesus. There is no mention of Jesus the 'savior' in Revelation but rather Judge, Jury and Executioner !!

No VPW didn't say that..just another one of Mo's 'selective hearing'.

Oh PLEEEEEEEEASSSSSE keep going Templelady.."only LDS get to go to 'the' heaven..non LDS go to other heavens" !!! Yet you have the audacity to point the finger at VPW teaching what he did ?? Does the term 'hypocricy' mean anything to you ??!!

Some (good) points..however..Just why did the 1st century church with their beliefs and doctrine last maybe 100-200 years, YET the 'Catholic Church' 'grew' in power ?? I think much of the answer is dictated by history. Evil persecutions, land grabbing, throne toppling, HUGE WEALTH accumulation, Jesuits, the martyrdoms of 'men of God' like Luther etc.. Mormons may have s.i.t. mentioned in their almanac, yet they believe it is only in a language that (someone) else present will understand. I think Joe Smith when he sat down to write that cr*p didn't realise the 'other benefits' associated with s.i.t In fact when one reads the 'book of Moron' one can see that he wrote it only as far as he was able to 'interpret' his limited knowledge of the KJV at the time. The rest he made up with his 'own interpretation' of verses like 'baptism for the dead', etc.. Some (good) points..however..Just why did the 1st century church with their beliefs and doctrine last maybe 100-200 years, YET the 'Catholic Church' 'grew' in power ?? I think much of the answer is dictated by history. Evil persecutions, land grabbing, throne toppling, HUGE WEALTH accumulation, Jesuits, the martyrdoms of 'men of God' like Luther etc.. Mormons may have s.i.t. mentioned in their almanac, yet they believe it is only in a language that (someone) else present will understand. I think Joe Smith when he sat down to write that cr*p didn't realise the 'other benefits' associated with s.i.t In fact when one reads the 'book of Moron' one can see that he wrote it only as far as he was able to 'interpret' his limited knowledge of the KJV at the time. The rest he made up with his 'own interpretation' of verses like 'baptism for the dead', etc..

Thankyou Moddiwasher and sorry ! All I wanted was for Mark© the catholic to come out and say "it wasn't me that sent Allan the abusive trinitarian emails" and as I said the 'silence' is deafening.

Sorry Templelady..the 'kingdom' of the (spirit world)? that Hitler and other bad people are presently in awaiting someone in lds to get baptised for them and give them a chance to say yes or no to a 'second' chance at salvation ?? Is that better ?? All I'm really saying is don't be too quick to put down, belittle and ridicule what VPW taught without bearing in mind what 'platform' you are actually speaking from. The same goes for Mark, the next 'Pope' wannabe !!

Well Mark..all I can say is that the 'strength' of most of the people attending the Catholic church is reflected by the teachings of the church, very weak and ludicrously wrong. Justify weakness..make excuses for 'feeling uncomfortable' about direct fellowship with God and His holy spirit. Templelady..I know people who have been 'baptised' in the Mormon church who came out of the water s.i.t. They were quickly told to cease doing this..again, going against what the Word says in 1Corinthians 14.."forbid not to s.i.t." This is done only because lds believe 'tongues have ceased' Belle..we were taught that "just because you have/haven't experienced something doesn't mean it isn't true." Evan..whether 'manifest' is a noun or not does not discount it 'becoming' a verb !! Thankyou VPW for the good you did do..you weren't perfect, but we learnt from the good and that 'stays us' for the rest of our lives.

Oh well Lindyhopper..so you are really saying those who have continued to hold onto 'majority' of doctrine learnt in twi are idiots and on drugs ? Your call. I guess I'm doomed to live eternally on that planet Mo mentioned.Do you think they'll have 'beatbox' music, rap on that planet?? Will I still be able to wear my bandanna ?? Geeesh..I must admit I didn't know that LDS were THAT whacked. I bet this is the stuff they only teach once someone has 'graduated' to 'Inner temple practise'.

Interesting considering that scientists have stated that every human does indeed appear to have come from the original same set of parents..Adam and Eve ? and language experts have concluded that at one point there was ONE 'mother tongue.'