Allan

The 'tithes and offerings' were just an offering of an explanation Raf. There could be a number of other reasons as well, eg..attention to detail, real assimilation of Gods' Word etc..( but then the JW's are 'right' into the Word ) anyway. Interesting exercize. I think you could be right with the 'power of positive thinking', not being awful but the RC's and JW's aren't exactly the most positive, vivacious, inspirational bunch are they. Both groups do believe that sickness is from God etc..and it's all Gods' will.

The prayer side of twi was left up to the individual, after all, for the most part it is a personal thing. However there was the 'house of His healing presence', 24 hour prayer sessions etc.. And as someone said awhile back...twi's record of deaths and tragedies, accidents etc..(per head of population) compared to many other churches was very, very low. I'll have to try to find the article because I can't remember how the calculations were done. I do remember the RC's came out right out on top, followed closely by the JW's. Surprisingly the Mormons were way down the bottom with twi. ( Remember..this was 'per head of population' comparison ) Maybe it does have something to do with tithes and offerings ??

And as I said before Mic**l Ada**s is as nasty and adulterous as they come, along with my bro-in-law Se*n Stric**an* Things changing at H.Q. ? believe me..they just got worse..

Does this mean the animal kingdom is more intelligent than us humans after all ??!!

Hi Garth..then one would have to begin to ponder on what heaven contains and how it functions and how God has set it up (and I think that would be quite an egotistical and foolish thing to do ) To be honest I think much of what happened here on earth by many will be lost in insignificance really when suddenly faced with eternity, paradise, eternal health and joy etc..

Hey excathedra..I thought I had the handle on getting up peoples noses, don't you try to take over my job ! Is it the cold over there at the moment or what, I see even Belle has been 'moderated' and 'deleted' on another thread !

It probably depended who was in charge at the root locales. We never got any of that stuff at Indiana campus whilst Wayne Clapp was running it. We had to learn the 'red thread' to be allowed to go on Christmas hols but that was never enforced !!

My my..so then even the Kenneth Copelands and Joyce Meyers and that dude that looks like a fat black version of Butterbean are 'plagiarists' seeing as most of their stuff comes from Billy Braham, Oral Roberts etc.. ??!! And they don't often refer to their 'sources' either ! Come on people..give some credit where credit is due, most of you haven't thrown away even half of what you learnt because of Vic. And don't give me any of that rubbish about a lot of 'it' being out there in other churches..it isn't, o.k.

Well said Mike.Even the companion Bible the Way produced has Bullingers name all over it. I think mastering pfal is of great benefit to anyone who ever wondered about the Bible 'fitting together." Why LCM didn't just 'improve' on it all is beyond me.( Guess he really was just an Okie from the Skokie) whatever that means !!!!!

Isn't it ironic by the time most of us can afford a big hi-definition plasma t.v. our eyes can no longer appreciate it !! " It's like raaaain on your wedding day..."

Hi Belle..From what I have read the fragments of the dead sea scrolls found do corroborate what is already in the Bible ! Also taking into account the 'harmony of the gospels' etc..when one reads the 'gospel of Thomas' etc..it along with other supposed addendums stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.

Hi excie..regarding your siblings parish priest being celibate for the last three years..just ask him !! And I'm convinced there are differn't demons that inhabit the differn't churches.

Listen you 'wet water immersifiers'..the malefactor on the 'cross' next to Jesus. Jesus counted him as 'saved'. Why, how.?? Was a bucket of water thrown over him to 'baptise' him.? Should this go to the 'silly forum'??!!

Mark..with all due respect you might just as well say that you are flying on 'blind faith' regarding salvation or else you are 'befuddled' regarding the significance of it, speaking in tongues, the new birth, the purpose and power of the holy spirit. 'believeth UNTO salvation', 'believeth UNTO righteousness'. Saved by grace and not works of any kind my friend. Mark..with all due respect you might just as well say that you are flying on 'blind faith' regarding salvation or else you are 'befuddled' regarding the significance of it, speaking in tongues, the new birth, the purpose and power of the holy spirit. 'believeth UNTO salvation', 'believeth UNTO righteousness'. Saved by grace and not works of any kind my friend. Even Sudo is more than likely saved, (I bet that's what REALLY agravates him !!)

To me it's simple. Confess, Jesus, Lord, believe, raised, shalt be SAVED. speaking in tongues, Christ in you, OUTWARD MANIFESTATION of INWARD REALITY. I think Rafs' got the right idea..'If you're saved and you know it clap your hands' (or drop the tail chasing).

At risk of going round in circles Mark..which 'baptism' are you talking about.? There is 'water' 'spirit' 'fire' 'sufferings' to mention some. I'll go for the 'spirit', works for me. One Lord, one faith, one body, one baptism etc.. Reading the gospels one gets a general sense of Jesus trying to get people to move in a new direction and the church epistles has Paul trying to do the same. In that respect I guess the book of Acts could be looked at as 'transitional.' One of the reasons 'baptism' is still a dilema for some maybe is that as soon as they read the word 'baptism' they immediatey associate it with water when in reality the word used in the greek denotes 'immersion'. Used mainly when talking about water or dyeing it becomes 'hard' for people to understand a 'spiritual immersion'.

I would like to think that ex-catholics left a lot of religious platitudes behind them and have encountered the power of the Holy Spirit, holy spirit. I too was brought up catholic..I know all the 'hail mary full of grace, the lord is with thees' and none of it did a dam**d thing for me or those I hold dear. Each to their own,but I think that a 'returning' catholic would be as 'rare' as a 'returning' twigee. p.s. if that 'sounds' uncivil I apologize in advance.

Enjoy your beers guys whilst I finish off with this... I have NEVER been water baptised. I have obeyed Romans 10:9,10. I speak in tongues fluently. I have helped a number of people into the 'new birth' also. I believe that 'rightly divided' Word practically will always line up doctrinally. God Bless ya!

Peter when recanting the story went on to say.." Then (denotes time) REMEMBERED I how Jesus said John indeed baptised WITH WATER, BUT you shall be baptised with HOLY SPIRIT...etc..." My question before was..am I saved even though I have never been water baptised, it's a simple question isn't it ?

Well said Lorna..if it's next week great, if it IS 2018, then time for me to 'push' a bit more.!!

Garth !!!!!!!!!!!!! Just read the darn thing!!!!!!!!!! Raf too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oakspear three !!!

So Mark..using your statement of the OT 'baptism' being a 'foreshadow' of Johns' baptism..why is it not possible that Johns' baptism (of the gospel period) was a 'foreshadow' of the new birth, pentecostal baptism of spirit ?

Exactly CWF..Peter also said in Hebrews 6: 2 about 'moving on' from doctrines of baptisms etc.. maybe we should to. I wonder if it is discussed by people who are not sure if they are actually born-again, saved or whatever. ??

Actually he doesn't give a 'day' or 'hour', but what he does give is some very good info I had never heard before ! Go on Garth..give it a read.

It is taken from Billy Ayles (ex twi) site. I hope he doesn't mind but it is www.thetimeline.org I have already read his stuff and in my op. it is quite revelational. One can download it from his site (36 pages). I would be interested in hearing Raf and some of the others op. on it once they have read through. Well worth the read.