Allan

I can only state that before I received the holy spirit, I could not 'speak in tongues' and after I 'received' I could ! no faking, clear monosyllabic enunciated words I do not understand. Also, Raf, if I remember rightly you originally came from a Jehovah Witness background. JW's vehemently repudiate s.i.t. I wonder if there is just a tad of rose tinted glasses in your exposition ? Perhaps flirting with their church again ? I say this sincerely because for any of us to be influenced by previous twi teachings as you have said would ring true just as much as you may be from your religious background is all.

Hi T-bone..I wouldnt class myself or a number of others as 'non-thinkers' either whilst having been in twi or out of it. I still think for myself and certainly when it comes to 'doctrine'. I would have to say from your way of reasoning that there are numerous trinitarian churches full of 'non-thinkers' as well ! When people say they have a more 'intimate' knowledge of God yet submit to 'trinitarian theology' I still wonder..do they mean God God or Jesus God or HS God or God Jesus ?? (I know what you're saying, doctrine can get in the way of relationship)

Regarding the trinity...ditto for what Free from Cults and DMiller have said !!

They were in our family corps. Last I heard they were on staff, but that was a little while back.

As someone once said.."Capital punishment DOES work, the perpetrator is guarenteed not to ever commit the same crime again" !!

DJS...some good points you made...however..TWI is NOT a business, it is meant to be a CHURCH ! A church that should be promoting things like honesty, integrity, openess, love, etc.. and then leading by example. The leaderships mentality will not change because they are in a mental fishbowl, out of touch with the real struggle in life. LCM may have learnt about some of the real world whilst going through his recent predicament, however he still more than likely is carrying his (sexual) baggage around with him. And as I have repeatedly said before, the 'new' leadership positions at h.q. level speak volumes to me. "Steady as she goes, full steam ahead" (as the unseen iceberg gets closer) Actually, when I think about it, TWI has already hit the iceberg and is stern down in the water.

Too funny Top of the World !!

I still believe the demons can sit 'dormant' for awhile before 'striking' again. Very good with the Galatians verse and I'd probably finish it off with Matthew 18: 6 !!

Sorry Djs..if I didn't personally know the new 'intl.leadership training' guy who has been appointed, I allllmost could fall for what you're saying !!

A bit of a 'tip'.. Downunder majority of homes are galv. metal. If put up new, let them 'weather' for 6 months to a year before painting. The paint sticks a lot longer !!

I can name one pentecostal church in New Zealand where the call went out from the leadership to financially get ALL their 'single mums' out of debt !! This church actually gave the money to them, what a novel concept !! This church has about 15,000 members.

The 'pollies' would never let the ordinary, everyday people decide their punishment because they know what we would do to them ! This is one of those things that actually strengthens my belief in God, and that there MUST be a 'Judgement Day' because He is a 'righteous' God. I still believe that there is no real genuine healing without genuine justice.

Just after p.o.p. Mic**l Ad*ms and wife Fel**ia split out and went to South Africa (of all places). Whilst there they contacted Gartmore and New Knoxville to see which one would support them with materials and other things. They never got a reply from Gartmore, hence their loyalty went to Ohio. Mic**l Ada*s and family are now the new Intl. Co-ord. at twi and I have to laugh at the 'irony' because he used to 'rant on' about how much he 'hated ' being around h.q. !! His wife also loves the beaches (which is why they fell in love with New Zealand) and Mic**l absolutely adored his 'spanking new' fire engine red Holden Commodore motor vehicle !! The wheels of Gods' justice grind slowly but finely !! Oh and I (presume) he had to leave his 'concubine' behind too.

And yet (I could be wrong)..I seem to remember hearing once that Albert Einstein once said that "everything I do, I do to prove there is a God" ??

I still have 'hundreds of tapes' that I need to find a cheap way of getting onto cd. I remember one time (at Emporia) where VPW was shocked to find the almost impossible work and study schedule the leadership there had placed everyone on..he basically 'blew up' in their faces, ha ha.

To all the ex- twi'ers, friend and foe alike. Even the opposing armies in the first and second world wars would cease fighting and give each other gifts !! Selina and I would like to wish you ALL a very happy and blessed and prosperous New Year.( hey, at least we're out of 'smallsville' aren't we !) Gee, this 'crown lager' really IS very nice !

It's a bit ironic, I remember VPW saying one time that "God would not be a righteous God if there was no judgement day" ! I think one of the greatest evils is a denial of natural justice. Without a fear of cosequences there is no fear of judgement, without a fear of judgement there is no fear of consequences. Pretty much what is up with the world right now !!

Yes, the boys are in ! As I said I always looked on my country of New Zealand as a 'microcosm' of TWI. So then I hear its' country co-ord. now has a position at h.q. (refer back to ozbirds posts if you want to know his background ) My bro-in-law is the replacement New Zealand co-ord. and he has a string of 'sexually violated women' deciding whether to drag his bottom through court. The boys never really left town, Lizzy. Personally speaking I would embrace 'Wiccism' or 'paganism' before I allowed myself or my family to ever go near twi or its' leaders again !!

Doojables question was does anyone have anything to add to the actual thread topic..? I havent seen any except for what I posted about TWI current and 'new' leadership. Threads like this seem to send Rascals and Excies heads spinning and careening back into some sort of time warp repeatedly..maybe they should ignore any topics that have 'sex', 'VP', 'abuse' etc.. included in them ?

As I've posted before, with some of their new staff placements, knowing what I know about for instance their new intl. leadership training co-ordinator....TWI 4 is going to be a 'hell-hole.'

Garth, if you ever had anything positive to say, I might listen. I've well and truly moved on from VPW although I remain thankful for what he taught. My new 'Christian hero' is Chris Pringle a true blue 'xxxx gold can' (it's a beer) on the forehead crushing(spiritually speaking) hot preaching kind of a guy. I'm sorry but I'm just not that pretendy lovey dovey tip toe through the tulips kind of a 'Rascally' sort of a guy.

Don't lose sleep Johniam, if one disagrees with some of the posters here..one is called a pr**k. If one still holds on to PFAL beliefs one is called narrow minded. If one talks about the creeping evil of political correctness including homophobia one is labelled an as*hole. If one DARES talk about people getting over something that happened 20 years ago one is labelled an insensitive so and so..don't you get it Johniam..? these posters have got nothing TO MOVE ON TO.

Yeah..try and point something out and the 'clicky' minions rush to each others aid. No wonder they never stood on their own two feet against 'waybraining' and are still trying to get over things 20 years later. It's pretty sad. These are the same people who put their hand on their heart and accuse someone of being 'insensitive' 'hardhearted' etc..if you disagree with them, yet if they disagree with you fire personal insults and everything else your way. Where I come from that's still called 'hypocricy'. So Mark O..do the Cathoilic priests 'twist' "suffer not the little children to come to me.." scripture ??!! (watch where those stones are thrown)!!

Thanks OM, I had forgotten about that in 'Way..living in love' . I never had the idea that VPW discovered all this 'new light' himself the whole time I was in TWI, but rather that he had 'brought it all together' in an understandable fashion. And lets be honest, how many of us would ever have heard of Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger without VPW.

Back to the topic..the person just appointed to intl. leadership training programme definitely falls into this category along with my bro-in-law who he has left in charge of New Zealand. My bro-in-laws excuse was he had to marry an older woman before they left Emporia when he actually prefers 'younger' ladies. TWI is still alive and as 'hellish' as ever. And I have no problems posting this stuff because I have eyewitness accounts who would testify anytime they 'had' to.