Allan

Interesting you bring up the camera/mental image thing Wordwolf...my wife ( Selina ) when we were believing for finances to get ourselves and 5 kids to Indiana Campus from New Zealand with not a lot of spare change hanging around, we would s.i.t. and she had a mental image of us arriving there and sitting around a brick wishing well at the front of campus ( neither of us had ever seen the campus before ) of course when we arrived there ( through a set of small miracles )what was sitting smack out the front ?!....go figure

Newsflash !!!! twi were/are not the only Christian outfit to believe in believing !!! Yes they took it to 'extremes' but I would venture to say it IS Biblical in concept, from Genesis to Revelation. Heck, To get 'born-again' one must what ? 'Apparently' this enables one to receive holy spirit...freedom of will decision to believe AND receive.

Nice Steve ! and I won't get into the 'vibration' of prayer ( it's rather new agey but appears to work too ) but yes indeedy all prayer and thanks should go to God the Father

Oh I don't know Steve, I believe in gravity, not because It's a scientific principle that can be explained to me in 50 differn't ways but rather ( from a practical point of view ) if I jump off a cliff I'm gonna end up at the bottom ! Just as I believe in the believing Jesus was talking about because I and many others have seen it in action, when the situation was within the parameters of a promise in God's Word and the person thanking and praying to Father had NO doubt He would bring it to pass.

When the impossible comes to pass through believing God's Word, it's called a godly conclusion

New Life, MWRAP, you summed it up nicely for ( me at least) ...Just because twi ( small letters intended ) promoted something doesn't mean it was ALL wrong

sure glad Jesus came to 'uncomplicate' life !! I think I'll stick with what works though Steve ( in a practical sense ) the way I see it if I need a fire to get warm and someone tells me to use matches, someone else tells me to use a cigarette lighter, someone else says no those don't work, use sticks instead, someone else wants to know how hot a fire I want or tells me I can't start a fire without the right kind of kindling...it doesn't matter if the fire ignites does it ?

I agree Twinko...that's why I'll stick to simply 'believing'...it works ( for me anyways )

As an aside, I had kidney problems years ago and one particular time I was bent over in pain. My 4 year old ( at the time ) came over, put her hand on the spot and prayed over me...never had a problem since, been 20 years....also, it just occurred to me...why are there 'manifestations' of holy spirit given as part of the gift ? Waste of time wouldn't you think ? God coulda just said "no manifestations...just pray" !!...let us reason together here brother !! Agape`

Yeah look Steve, something's still not right...number 1/ you have not answered my question about what Jesus meant in Matthew 21:22...to the point this is getting almost ridiculous just tell me what you think Jesus was meaning....btw, didn't Jesus say to someone "If YOU can BELIEVE, all things are possible to THEM THAT BELIEVETH "?????? 2/ I'm not trying to be dogmatic here, it's just that as someone who has seen 'believing' in action ( and I'm talking a 'believer' 'believing' ) your point ( to me at least ) is rather, shall we say...lacking

Steve...could you please give me an ANSWER to my question regarding what Jesus meant when he said what he did in Matthew 21:22 ? I cannot believe Jesus was merely teaching a 'theological system' otherwise NOTHING would have happened in his ministry !!! If you were to explain that what Jesus was saying was your prayer with believing get's God's attention and then maybe God moves then great...

how did we get to sonic screwdrivers ?! wtf ?? and Steve, your explanation reminded me of that verse "much studying makes one mad" ? Isn't it much simpler to believe it...or not ? signs, miracles and wonders are certainly a violation of natural law ( that God created anyways ) but be that may...Jesus must have 'believed' to see them brought to pass and I believe he was showing us the way to at least try to do it too. Jesus did not cast a mountain into the sea, but he sure did raise people from the dead, instantaneously heal sick people, blind people, leprous people, multiply fishes and bread, walk on water etc...of course, he could have been a fraud....or... God ??!!

Hi Krys, I s'pose even the one word 'whatsoever' could be argued til the cows come home lol...I just happen to think it's whatsoever God's Word says whats oever available to believe for

cute pictures...but can you please just explain WHAT Jesus meant in Matthew 21:22 ????!!! Anyone ???!!! Before re-directing it to 'doctrinal' section ( which is where I can see it being swept to )...please give your 'interpretation' of it? was it a 'gospel' thing only, did he lie, delude, grand stand, seduce, with his statement. Is it an interpretational error...what ??!!

BTW, straw man argument or not, I'd tend to believe someone who has done it 'believing' and seen results, than someone who says it can't be done...it's called a testimony. It's a bit like s.i.t. I'd believe someone who genuinely s.i.t. ( regardless of whether people label it 'free vocalization' or pscycho babble or whatever ) than someone who admitted they faked it ! If all of this to'ing and fro'ing is merely labelled straw man, then what is really the point of discourse, in fact, what is even the point of Greasespot ?!

Oh, I thought Steve was arguing a 'doctrinal point'...the thing is, unless it's extrapolated out, it just stays...'doctrinal'...the way I see it, one can read it for mental stimulation, or bring it off the pages if you like and bring it forth for physical 'stimulation'...maybe THAT'S a good definition of 'believing' in itself ?! it's been referred to as 'mental assent'...now I know V.P. used that term, but it is not a 'new thing'... in reading the actions of Jesus Christ on numerous occasions he appeared to assault the disciples mental assent.

So you're saying Jesus lied when he said "All things whatsoever YOU shall ask in prayer BELIEVING, YOU SHALL RECEIVE" ? or is it a 'translational error' ? or is it a 'figure of speech' ? ? They say that proof is in the pudding...I've seen the 'proof' not only with myself, but MANY others who literaly believed without a 'doubt' in their hearts....without using 'man's wisdom', please explain, I mean let's not start 'selecting' particular scriptures to believe or not believe ( otherwise, you're by default 'proving' V.P. was right in talking about 'Christians' that do such things BTW Steve, ther's actually 1654 promises in KJV ( our study group went through KJV over three weeks noting them ) so I guess God's got plenty to 'live up to' Dattssss roooigghhttt...we got tired of saying 'over 900 promises'...so we thought we'd actually count them...I'm not talking ALL promises either ( i.e. ones that only apply to Israel or such, but ones that WE can draw upon today ! much agape bro

Yes Krys and thanks for that ( I knew it but was just making a point ) ! and MRAP, nice nutshell...one either believes IN 'believing' or not, just like one either believes IN the 'authority' of the written Word...or not...peace out xx

So Twinky ( ;) Jesus meant in Matthew 21:22 that whatsoever we ask in prayer ( regarding ? trusting ? truthfully ? ) we shall receive ?! It's a bit hard too btw when a 9 year old girl is in an induced coma to expect HER to believe ?!

I would agree to disagree Steve...specific times I've needed revelation, I s.i.t. much and when I needed the rev it was there ! One instance was locating a missing person...God led me straight to where they were ( in a city with NO clue as to where they could have gone )...other times in conjunction with believing to sell a house overnight ( for cash ) to get to the states, other times for eg. to minister deliverance to a young relative in a coma...she was up out of it virtually instantaneously....so, really, no-one will convince me that it's all just some mental exercize !! I'm sorry if so few saw any real signs, miracles, wonders in their walk ? Could it be an American thing ? I enjoyed hearing Kenneth Copeland share once how in African nations the people 'struggled' to believe for financial abundance, yet they had no problems believing in healings whereas the western world find it easier to believe in/for abundance yet not healing ? go figure !

We have family still in and to be honest, we hope they stay in for longer....they deserve it

Yeah, the 16 keys of walking by the spirit...."God has something to say to you, God has something to say, listen, listen, pay close attention, God has something to say ...

They've already got that one covered ! apparently, all the 'bad' people are going to be taken away off the planet....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503076&gal_cid=1503076&gallery_id=152613 Interesting this coincides with the Popes new directive on climate change http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11484988

I'm not trying to say ANYTHING ! I just reposted something that as I said in MY sub heading, a short article that helped ME...if someone else reads it and thinks it may help THEM, all good...knowing who the author is or where it was originally printed, or if it's a book/novel that's going to make it to the big screen, or whether it was typed on an apple mac or a windows office works '98 programme, is superfluous...imho