Linda Z

Oh, and Cynic: I'm accustomed to the stilted manner in which you epxress yourself. Hey, if you don't want people to know what the heck you're saying because you're hellbent on sounding scholarly, have at it, but it makes for lousy communication outside the ivory tower. One question, though: You said, "I have not appealed to the Constitution, and deem that document something that is quite far from having been divinely spirated." What is "spirated," because I can't find it in any American English dictionary. Maybe you meant "inspired"? Linda Z

Question: If God is so opposed to homosexuality, why weren't there 11 commandments instead of 10, to include: "A man shall not love another man, and a woman shall not love another woman"? I'm not arguing that homosexuality was something God necessarily wanted or designed. After all, when he created Adam and Eve, He made their bodies wonderfully compatible--and I'd venture that the design hasn't changed a whole lot since then. And Adam and Eve had to populate the earth, so it made sense to have them be attracitve to each other. But I'd say by now the earth is more than adequately populated, and letting the small percentage of homosexuals on this planet marry sure as heck isn't going to keep the heterosexuals from having children. Do you think God din't know there would be homosexuals? Why, then, if He wanted so badly to condemn homosexuality, didn't He outlaw it in the days of Moses? I can't think of one crime man can commit against man that isn't covered by those 10 commandments. Not one. Yet, wonder of wonders, homosexuality is glaringly absent. 'Splain that to me, please. Linda Z

Coolwaters raised the most clearly stated, logical argument for permitting same-sex marriage I've yet seen in this thread: It's a legal contract. So why should anyone be denied the right (or privilege--either way) to enter into that legal contract? Denying one segment of the population this right/privilege certainly doesn't seem just or right to me. Zix, you're calling upon tradition to argue against homosexuals marrying? (Why do I picture you dancing around like the Zero Mostel in Fiddler on the Roof? "TraDItion!" Some traditions are good; some can stand a tune-up, and I think this is one of them. Cynic, you're invoking the inerrancy of your denomination's take on the Bible to bolster your argument. I also hold the Scriptures in extremely high regard, but I am willing to acknowledge: (a) that my understanding of portions of the Bible could be incorrect, or (b) that over the centuries, maybe, just maybe, the men who chose what went into the Bible and what didn't, and how it all should be interpreted into English, might have been mistaken on some points, or they might have had their own agendas that crept in, whether intentionally or not. Tradition is no basis for such determinations, Zixar. Others have made that argument in this thread, and made it well. Traditions change as people's needs change, as society changes. (And NO, I'm not saying let's have a free-for-all and let everyone do as they like. I'm talking about permitting something that doesn't cause harm to anyone else.) Cynic, can you prove to me that the verses on homosexuality in the Bible were God-breathed and unaffected by any man's influence? Excath: You did NOTHING to disrupt this thread. Cynic's just diverting attention from the flaws in his argument by calling your opinions/questions disruptive. Ignore him and ask/say what you want. laleo: Your argument that marriage affords women and children protection is good in terms of being a reason why marriage is beneficialfor heterosexuals. But I don't understand how extending the right to marry to people of the same gender would compromise that protection. Please explain. Linda Z [This message was edited by Linda Z on February 07, 2004 at 8:26.]

I'm glad I didn't see it. Seeing RFR's sappy smile that early in the morning might be too hard to take. I know that was the case every day that I worked for her.

Oopsie, my e-mail to the address in your profile bounced. Last I knew she was in Cleveland (couple years ago), but I don't know if she still is. Linda Z

NIKA, check your e-mail. Oh, and I forgot to say when I wrote it that Michele was in F3. :)--> Linda Z

Valerie: Here's a link to Island's gallery in New York City. Looks like he's doing great! I have fond memories of him and Heidi. http://www.islandweiss.com/pages/gallery.html Linda Z

Look forward to hearing from ya, Ted! And yeah, I might be able to venture down that way, after the frozen tundra melts!! I don't think it's made it up to double digits yet today, and a big storm's supposed to be on it's way. Where is that groundhog?!? Hah, raccoons are cute, but what a pain they can be. Good luck with that! :)--> Talk to ya soon. Love, Linda

Hey Ted, great to see ya! Thanks for the tunes and the memories. Miss talkin' atcha, but I hear you've moved away. :(--> Hope you like where you are, though! God bless & love, Linda

Wayward: No apologies necessary for those long posts. I hope you're able to get those letters to the Peelers. I'm sure Rosalie will try to wriggle out from under them by saying, "Well, he's gone," and she's sly enough not to put such words on paper or on tape and, instead, communicate the same edicts by means of "the Way tree." I hope the plaintiffs' attorneys are sharp enough to catch her in her lies. Linda Z

Dearest Brother and Sister 9ths: I've been thinking about two of my 9th Corps friends and wonder if maybe any of you know how I could reach them. Kent Kip******: Is he still in St. Louis? I had his and his wife's number about 10 years ago, but dunno if they're still there. Alexis Spak****--last seen (by me, at least) in New Hampshire in early spring 1986. Anyone know where she is now, or have her e-mail add? I don't like using Friend Tracker cuz (a) I don't want anyone trashin' people I love there, and (b) I dunno if they'd like their names posted on the Internet. My e-mail address is in my profile, if anyone has any clues for me and wants to share. Thanks, and keep the 9th Corps thread going. Don't stop, never stop, don't stop speakin' 9th Corps, don't stop speakin'.

Oldies, I think you missed another part of GT's post (my emphasis added): "... but only they know ~ no one can really judge one's healing in matters of the heart & mind ~ not yet anyway" That's so true. How long it takes to heal a physical wound depends on many things: the depth and type of wound, proper conditions for healing, effective treatment, etc. Wounds of the heart are much more complex, and how long it takes for them to heal is different for every person. And how they get there varies widely, too. I admire Naomi Judd for her courage and tenacity. I also see those qualities in the women who got used and abused in twi. The implication of your post, if I'm reading it right, is "Hey, Naomi got over it, so why can't everyone else?" Easy: Everyone else isn't Naomi Judd. Each of us has his/her own strengths, weaknesses, resources, pasts, challenges, ad infinitum. Reminds me of my mother saying to me once, "How can you be crying over [whatever was breaking my teenage heart at the time], when so-and-so has a much worse problem?" I said, "Well, this is MY problem and I'm hurting about it. I feel sorry for so-and-so, but the fact that she has a worse problem than I do doesn't take away my hurt." That might have been one of the few times I was right as a teenager. Linda Z

More derail action: Silly me. I didn't catch that the post said the chem teacher started the fire with water. The fire I referred to didn't start because of the wet weather, of course. Didn't mean to imply that. But the roof burned/exploded out and all the water/snow falling into the building where the fire started just kept it burning and exploding for more than 2 days. Linda Z PS to Dot: No Mensa for me, thanks! Even if I could pass the test, which I doubt, I've met too many obnoxious mensa members to have any desire for that group! (No offense to any GSers who are mensa members--that's just been my experience.)

Ooh, ooh, Mistah Kottah, Mistah Kottah, I can answer this one!! We just had a horrendous fire in Cleveland at a magnesium-recycling plant. Despite the best efforts of umpteen firefighters, it burned for 2+ days because it was raining/wet-snowing at the time, and water causes magnesium to burn and explode. Looked like the 4th of July. Zix, I am shocked that I knew a science answer that you didn't!! :D--> (I do recognize, however, that "umpteen" is not a scientific term.) Linda Z

No condemnation here...I just commented on why there might have been a misunderstanding.

Dot: Arnold the Pig was fine. I was the one who was traumatized. :)--> He probably grew up to be dinner, but I didn't like to think about that. Linda

Dabobbiedoo: I agree with your assessment of politics. Mwah. {{{{Rocky & Oak}}}} I love a happy ending. Linda Z

My last year in rez I worked on the farm, and I had a little piglet friend who lived in the big barn by himself because he'd been sick and needed extra attention. I called him Arnold. In the fall we were going to have one of those play weekends, including an intramural football game, FV vs. FVII. I got the brilliant idea that FV should have a mascot. I asked Foster S. if I could bring a pig to the "pep rally" at lunch. For some reason (he must have thought I didn't mean a REAL pig) he said okay. I trotted on over to the barn and put a rope around Arnold's neck like a leash. He trotted back with me just fine until we got to Adam's Alley behind the dining room and he just flipped out! He slipped out of the rope and took off. I chased him and caught him next to the auto shop, but I dropped the rope in the chase. There we lay in the cold, damp grass, Arnold squealing with all his little lung power and me with my arms and legs wrapped around him screaming, "Help me! Help!! Somebody hellllllp!!" One of the staff who worked in the kitchen finally heard me and held Arnold for me till I got him back on his "leash." I was too chicken by that time to lead him into the dining room, so I stashed him in the basement of the laundry room until lunch was over. Lenny G, the head of farms, had quite a laugh at my expense, and he wouldn't help me take Arnold back. ("You got him here, you can get him back *chuckle, chuckle*.) Thanks to my rescuer's supplying me with a bag of popcorn, I was able to lure Arnold back across the road and into his pen. I thought for sure that would be the day I got booted out of the Corps. Linda Z

Vickles, your story reminds me of a time when I was cleaning Port-a-Johns after the Rock (yeah, Corps got all the glam jobs!). I was scrubbin' the toidy in one of the stalls when, unbeknownst to me, a guy (a very quiet guy, I might add) came in to use one of the urinals. I finished my scrubbin' duties and swung the stall door open to exit, and wham, the door hit the poor peein' guy right in the arse. I couldn't tell for sure which of us was more embarrassed, but I think it was me. Linda Z

Rascal, that's a GREAT story!! Dabobbada: Please do not judge all liberals, perceived liberals, or nonconservatives by Rocky's reaction to Oak et al's prank. I don't get his extreme reaction either, and I'm a moderate with liberal leanings. :D--> Personally, the masks would have scared me, since I wouldn't have seen that these were people I knew and I would have felt I was in real danger. The ropes just would have ....ed me off. But I thought the panty raid part was funny. These guys, being youthfully goofy, just took it up a few more notches than they should have. I can understand how that would happen. Linda Z

Valerie, your 7th Corps bro John R. asked way back in Sept. if others could come, as have several people since then, but there was no response. In fact, Sunesis extended a loving, albeit indirect, welcome to the 9th, and nothing was said to contradict her. It's easy to see how the 9th Corps would feel they might be welcome after 4 months of discussion and nothing said to the contrary. How 'bout this: Why couldn't other (e.g., 9th) Corps folks go to LV at the same time as your reunion, without partaking of your cruise or your exclusively 7th Corps activities. Then whoever from both Corps wanted to could get together during their free time. (Don't know if anyone from the 9th still wants to go, but if.) Linda Z

Hope you all don't mind a little interlopin' from one of your seester Corps (FV) seesters. I couldn't even get any FV old farts and fartitas [except Danny, and he was the young'un of our Corps] to get the FV thread rollin', much less think about reuniting. But if we ever have a reunion, let it be known that the 9th Corps is hereby officially invited!! Love, Linda Z Editing in this: PS. No sarcasm or humor whatsoever intended. I loved being around you guys and had some good friends in the 9th. [This message was edited by Linda Z on January 11, 2004 at 15:14.]

Oldies, first let's be clear on something. Not all the young girls who had sex with twi "leaders" initiated it or even wanted it--I know that for a fact. I think responsibility and accountability have to be looked at in proportion to who had the power in the situation. Even in instances when young girls or boys threw themselves at twi leaders, any adult who is in a position of trust, in a profession in which people come to him/her for counseling (minister, doctor, lawyer, psychologist, psychiatrist, teacher come to mind), should know that power (or perceived power) is an attraction, and he/she should be ready to graciously turn away any inappropriate advances or innuendo. You know darn well I'm not one of those "Wierwille haters," but I sure as hell won't make excuses for any of his actions that, contrary to God's Word, were NOT loving and were NOT right by anyone's standards except those who rationalized that they were okay. Like I said early in this thread, I'm not here either to excuse or condemn anyone else's sins. That's between each person and God. But I sorta doubt that "that darn 16-year-old girl made me do it" is gonna hold much water. Linda Z

Geo. said: "Why don't they get it? Because they care more about their sacred 'doctrine' than they do about people." I agree, George, that there are people who fit into that category, but I think most of them avoid GS like the plague because their current "leaders" have told them it's "evil," "profitless," "all a pack of lies," whatever. I think most of the people (not all, but most) on GS have shed that "I know all the truth" BS and are just figuring life out, each at his/her own pace. I think most of us are a lot more concerned about people than about thinking we have all the answers. Linda Z

Johnny L., I sure do value your opinion, as I do everyone else's on this thread. Alfakat is exactly right. I'm not so sure early2it expresses his/her opinions. It seems more to me like he's always preaching at everyone and contending that his way is the only way. I generally do my best to ignore people who behave in that way. I didn't start this thread for anyone to use as a platform to show how spiritually superior he thinks he is or to denigrate others' opinions and thoughts. I started it in hopes it would be a way for those of us who wanted to participate in it to gain a better understanding of each other's experiences and what's brought us to the point where we are now. There have been some real gems here, and I thank everyone for contributing them!! Linda Z