Linda Z

Chas, LCM must have been spouting that after I left, so I never heard it. As much as I disliked CGeer, I don't think visiting Gartmore caused VPW's decline. I think he was already terminal when he went there. I was on staff when he died and for three years before. In the final months of his life, he wasn't out an about HQ like he once had been and yes, he appeared to be weary. In retrospect, during that time some of his teachings seemed to be a real effort to convey things he felt were important, as if time was running out. Maybe he knew he was dying. So anyway, yes, I think Geer was (and probably still is) a bad guy, but not for the reasons LCM claimed. I think that was just LCM's reaction to the power struggle between the two of them.

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Whether there's a spiritual component to some cancers I don't know, but I checked my AC notes awhile back when this came up to see what was taught--at least the year I was there. VPW didn't teach that someone had to be possessed to get cancer; he taught that the disease is caused by a devil spirit. There's a difference. Again, I don't know if it's true, but that's what was taught when I sat through the class. As for a cover-up, I know twi didn't shout from the rooftops that VPW died of cancer; God forbid they should "speak any negatives." But I knew it, maybe only because I was on HQ staff when he died. I wasn't in any privileged "inner circle" by any means. I was just a worker bee, and it didn't seem to me to be any secret what VPW had. David, the "light story," as you call it, wasn't fabricated. I knew people who were there when it happened. I also knew about it almost 20 years before VPW died, so if it was fabricated as a cover-up for the cause of his death, someone had some pretty incredible foresight. :)--> Disease attacks our bodies where they're weakest, and it's entirely feasible that the earlier injury to his eyes made him more vulnerable to melanoma of the eye. Ever hear any warnings about sun exposure and skin cancer? The lights used in filming 35-40 years ago were much harsher and hotter than what's used today. Not defending the man, just the "facts" being tossed around in this thread.

Steve and Bev divorced back in the late 70s and I think that might be the only album they did. But it wasn't Strz**ek, it was Stri*k. I think he used to be listed on the Cartright Web site.

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Hope your whole day's a real hot dog! Happy, happy birthday!

Hats off to you both. That's quite an honor he's earned, and I'm sure he had plenty of support from Dad!

If someone doesn't think of a Vivica Fox movie soon, I'm gonna have to cheat. or Which will it be? :D-->

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Good question, Chas. I have mixed feelings, too. I did know him and liked him. I worked closely with him on a few occasions and had other one-on-one time with him, and he spent quite a bit of time with us at the Indiana Campus. He always treated me and my son and the rest of my family with respect and kindness. (And no, before anyone says it, that doesn't mean the reprehensible things he did are negated by that.) I knew nothing about the shenanigans going on behind the scenes, and when I heard from women I knew and respected about the things he did to them, I was angry at him for not controlling his lusts and behavior. But by then he was long dead, so I couldn't tell him so. Despite that, I'm still thankful for what I learned in PFAL. I don't still believe all of it, but that class really woke me up. I had never respected God except when I was a child, and I no longer thought God gave two hoots about me until I took that class. I know, I know, he was sloppy in documenting his sources. He had enough education to have done a better job of that, but the bottom line is that the man could teach the Bible in a way that reached me. For whatever reason, he got through to me with the message of God's love and goodness and power like no one ever had. Unlike many who post here, I wasn't a teeneager looking for a father substitute or someone to idolize or a group to make me feel I belonged. I was a young divorced mother who was yearning to know whether I could have a real relationship with God and who needed to get my act together so I could be a good mom. I wasn't disappointed. There was recently a thread about Billy Graham and what an honorable man he is. I have no reason to doubt that, and I'm glad he could gain such acclaim without giving in to the temptations that come with it. But Billy Graham never reached me. I watched him on TV with my parents. I even went to one of his crusades. To me it was just another Baptist altar call, only in a stadium, and I'd been through a number of those. No substance. Take it on faith because I say so. It left me cold. So anyway, I figure God's capable of dealing with VPW. Whether the good things he did will be wiped out by the bad things he did, I don't know. But I trust that God does.

I agree with Garth and mj. I was in from 1972 until 1986 and "semi-in" (in but highly skeptical) until 1989. I never saw or heard about the level of control in twi that this group in Utah apparently exerts over its members. I knew of no one in twi who was forced to marry at 13 or younger and become a baby factory to a man with multiple wives. I knew no one who had to (at least knowingly!) share her husband with several other women. I understand that twi became much more controlling in the years after I left, but I don't see that the degree of control came anywhere near this group's. PMosh said: "I remember submitting my personal budget to TWI leaders, filling out paperwork to get permission to go on a weekend trip, etc. That's pretty controlling to me." Yes, it is. But did anyone stop you from leaving when you got fed up with that? I know family and peer pressure can make it emotionally difficult to leave, and I know people tried to talk their friends into staying, and I know LCM did his "grease spot by midnight" rant, but the fact that thousands have departed indicates to me that the control wasn't insurmountable.

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G StG: I think you're more upset about this than my friend was. --> BTW, I asked if I could throw them out.

I will never throw out something that belongs to a man again. When I left twi I moved in with a friend who had a HUGE collection of early National Geographics. He and a friend were going to a baseball game one day, and I thought I'd do him a favor. I pulled all those old magazines down from the bookshelf and put them in chronological order. I made a pile of duplicates so he could decide what to do with them. So far so good. Then I sinned. I threw away all the maps that came with the magazines. Who'd ever need a map of Borneo, for cryin' out loud? Sure enough, not a week later, one of my friend's buddies came by, looking for a map of some obscure place. My friend said, "Oh, I'm sure I have that." I timidly said, "Um, no, you don't." Who knew it was really true that if you throw something away, even if you've had it for 15 years and never used it, the need will arise. I learned my lesson!

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Dr. Phil's a clinical psychologist with a PhD.

Suz, another fly-by--drats. I sent my work number to your e-mail address, but it bounced. Have you changed e-mail addresses?? One of these times we'll get together!

Cindy, I'm quoting this in case you missed it in my first post. If you're going for the early-60s, late 50s Beat thing--poetry reading and all that, what I've described above plus a tall wooden stool for the poetry readers, as Ex-10 suggested, is really all you need. The Beats were minimalists--definitely not much into decorative items. They make checkered red tablecloths in paper. If you know of a busy, old-fashioned Italian restaurant (in Chicago, that should be easy), you could ask them if they still serve chianti in those bottles with the straw bottoms, as dmiller described, and ask them to save their empties for you. If not, I'm sure you could find other bottles that would do as makeshift candleholders. If safety laws prohibit the burning of candles for a school function, you could always burn them at home ahead of time, so that they drip nicely down the sides of the bottles. The music of the Beat Generation was mainly jazz early on, with some blues mixed in. I believe it was later, closer to the end of the "era," when folk came into the mix. Sounds like fun! Hope you get what you need.

herbie said: Unfortunately it's because I was there. And amazingly enough, I even remember large portions.

Oops, a day late and a coffee can fulla dollars short!

Ooh, thought of another idea. Graffiti was big. You could put butcher paper on some walls so the kids could make their own. You might have to remind 'em to keep it clean. :D-->

Posters and a blacklight would be perfect. Alas, I have neither to offer, but you can get a blacklight bulb for cheap, and the posters would be fairly simple to reproduce. How old are the kids? It might be a fun project to have them color/paint their own psychedelic "posters" with glow-in-the-dark crayons/paints. I'll bet you could even find a book at the library or through the interlibrary system with examples of 60s poster art. Playing a couple 60s greatest-hits CDs would help set the mood. By the way, the "snapping" was really a late 1950s, early 60s beatnik thing, as were bongo drums (if that's what you mean by a little drum). Instead, just teach 'em the buzzwords: far out, groovy, outa sight, etc. and have 'em dress in old bellbottoms and tie-dyed shirts. :)--> If you're going for the beat era, they can switch to tights and black turtlenecks for the girls, jeans and black turtlenecks for boys, and berets for all! And teach 'em to say, "Cool, daddy-o." No decorations needed except maybe a few candles in chianti bottles sitting on tables with checkered tablecloths.

Sorry, Shell, but looks like this might not be quite such a cool story after all. The guys who said they "found the money while digging up a tree" have been arrested for "finding" the money hidden in someone's barn, where they were replacing the roof. The family who own the barn think the money was hidden there by some ancestors. I wanted it to be so. I've always dreamed of digging up something cool. Not necessarily money, but something interesting and historical. The guys are sticking to their story, but law enforcement officials say there are too many holes in their story. I suppose it's possible that the barn owners are trying to scam these guys, too. Interesting little mystery. Stay tuned!

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