Linda Z

It became obvious to me back in the early 80s that we were getting out of balance. Studying is fine, but twi was moving in a direction that was emphasizing research, too much, imo. Love was flying out the door as the puffed-upness of knowledge, knowledge, knowledge became all-important. A knowledge of the Bible isn't worth two cents without love, compassion, and trust in God; otherwise it just becomes a series of slogans.

Matt Damon Good Will Hunting Robin Williams>

Woody Harrelson White Men Can't Jump Wesley Snipes

Rocky Horror Picture Show (damn it, Janet!) Susan Sarandon Thelma and Louise

Steve! asked: Because then it's like a finger in a finger, or an ear in a....nevermind. Seriously, I agree with you. It's pretty obvious he was wrong on both counts. Ham and Groucho, you guys are too funny! I can hear it now: "Hey baby, is that a finger in your pocket or are you juat happy to see my ear?"

I'm on vacation all next week, too. I'm soooooooooo excited. Haven't taken a full week off at once in about three years. Wheeee! Have fun, Ham. Where in N. W. Va.? It is beautiful there. I lived in Wheeling, and even out on the edge of town were beautiful woods and rivers. It's a gorgeous state. Hope your field day was fun, too. I sat in on a couple of those when I was at Rome City. I was even thinking of getting my license, but I never got around to practicing the dots and dashes for the test.

Belle: That was hilarious! Okay, OE, I have one...really. I'd ask what it was like to have Barbara for a mother. I kinda like her spunk, but I bet she was a strict mom!

David, I don't understand why you're accusing Krys of arrogance, and why you're bringing up a misunderstanding that happened months ago and for which Krys already apologized to you. If anyone in this thread has demonstrated a willingness to hear your side of the story and the reasoning behind it, it's been Krys. I've been criticized for defending you. Let me make it quite clear, both to the critics and to you, that I was never defending your sarcastic and snotty remarks. I was merely defending your right to voice what had turned out to be an unpopular opinion. I don't like when that happens to anyone. Reminds me way too much of that other outfit I left. But so does the tendency to disparage anyone who disagrees with you, which you've done just as much as the most vociferous opponents to your ideas about oxygenated water. I also stuck up for you because I know you, and at times what others saw as arrogance, I saw as your rather droll sense of humor. No more. I still like ya, but I don't have enough time in my day to try to convince people you're one of the good guys (which I know you are), while you're doing your best imitation of a stinkpot. So I'm through with this thread, too. (Well, unless someone says something useful or interesting again...I confess I'll look in to see what's happening if it doesn't die a natural death.) And by the way. I took PFAL. Lots of times. :P-->

I'm happy to report that His Socksness is alive and well and able to type. -->

Lindy: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Krys said: Heh heh, I wouldn't go so far as to expect a peaceful environement. I'd be happy if we could just have one in which someone could express a "different" opinion without being pounced on by the guardians of all that is right. :D--> And you're right, it was Ginger (I miss Ginger!) who coined the term "choo-choo for thread derailment. Reikilady: I remember that thread well. I don't blame you for not wanting to subject yourself to derision. Who likes that?

Lindy said: "For some reason some people think that the burdon of proof is on the people who say oxygenated water is a way to a good burp. It is not. The burdon is on the ones making the fantastic claims." My comments really have nothing to do with the burden of proof or the "fantastic claims," and everything to do with respecting each other's right to express an opinion. The naysayers came down on David like he was trying to get heroin legalized for use by children in school cafeterias. "...you inhale it and it goes thru what a Bible believer as David believes is God's less efficient design." I don't see anywhere that David said God's design is "less efficient" than what he proposes. Off the top of my head, I'd say that if we ate better, didn't breathe polluted air, never smoked, lived in a perfect world, you would be correct--breathing oxygen would be sufficient. But isn't it even remotely possible that there are other ways to get oxygen into the body, to help compensate for the horrible things our bodies are subjected to in this modern world? "...Now that last statement seems to draw fire from David, including name calling." And I didn't defend him for doing that. "Why he doesn't do the same for you, I can only imagine is because while you also want proof, you defend him, from the 'usual pilers.'" I don't think so. I think it's because although I didn't jump on his bandwagon, I also didn't jump on his case, as if I were some sort of expert who could disprove what he was saying. "If it realy was a miracle drink that had scientific support, DRs would be on it doing the research and getting a Pulitzer. They would love nothing more." I disagree. I've been dealing with medical researchers for about 20 years. Research, as David pointed out long ago, is not cheap. Doctors don't put up their own cash for doing it. Drug companies, medical device companies, gov't agencies--those are the sponsors of the majority of medical research. Do you think they're going to put up tons of money to research something that people can produce in their own kitchens? "If this thread would just DIE we would all be much happier and therefore healthier (not a bogus claim)." Why does this thread have to die? In between the insults from both sides, some interesting things have been said. Those who think it's not worthwhile can just skip past it.

{{{Krys}}} A few points about this thread (not directing them at you Krys--only the hug was aimed your way): 1. David isn't selling oxygenated water or the equipment to make it. 2. David doesn't, to my knowledge, have stock in the company that makes Penta. 3. David started this thread because it seemed to him oxygenated water was doing some people (and some horses!) good. 4. I've been in many meetings/seminars/symposia in which *real* researchers and physicians have disagreed when discussing a new theory for the cause/treatment of some disease or another, etc. Never have I seen one of them stand up and yell, "Bunk!" They simply state their views as to why they believe the theory is not sound, and they agree to disagree. And certainly none of them ever invites another to kiss his (*). Amazingly, they manage to stick to the science and the research and their opinions on the facts without disparaging each other. A real debate. What a concept! 5. Yes, David did get ....y when 3 or 4 of the perennial piler-onners piled on him. He shouldn't have, but I don't blame him. 5. If you don't want to drink the stuff, don't drink it. If you do, do. 6. If you don't want to read the thread, don't. If you do, read on. 7. The only published "oxygenated water is of no use" study I found in the legit medical literature had too few subjects to prove or disprove much of anything, and it had other design flwas, as Krys pointed out eons ago. In short, it doesn't disprove jack****. 8. In all fairness, I also haven't seen any studies that prove it's highly beneficial, either, but I'm willing to consider both sides of the argument until either side comes up with some kinda proof. 9. Several people have tried the stuff and have felt better for it. I'm not qualified to discuss all the clinical and chemical and physical factors involved. But I know oxygen is good for us, and I don't see that hyperbaric therapy is all that unrelated a topic to bring into the discussion. I also heard this week about a new gadget that pumps pure oxygen into a longtime chronic wound and voila, the thing heals--we're talking wounds of like 15 years' duration here. 10. WE DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF OXYGEN ON THE HUMAN BODY, whether it comes from our drinking water or sticking our bods in a hyperbaric chamber or sticking a gadget on a wound that pumps O2 into it. If it's something that's not going to hurt anyone, why is it Raf's and Steve's mission to poo-poo the idea? I don't know. Methinks there's more to it than water. Why can't we continue the disucssion without all the slams at the people discussing and without the CHILDISH insertion of (*) into the mix? (And I don't care "who hit you first." Be men, for God's sake. All of you.) I don't know which side is right, but I'd really, really, really love to see a grown-up discussion. For cryin' out loud, this isn't Bush vs. Kerry. This isn't atheism vs. Christianity. I see no need for all the "heat." (edited only to fix typos)

I guess I'm just ahead of my time. I divorced in my twenties and did the younger man thing in my forties. Dunno what's next!

Belle, I'm wondering why you think that. I just read a few things, but I don't think it sounds like Wayfers. Vickles, it's not really surprising that a lot of Christian groups use the Greek word for love. I even heard it before twi. Remember, too, that in quite a few things, twi was very much in line with a lot of fundamentalist Christian teachings. When I first left twi, lots of times when I heard a Christian preacher on TV I wondered if he or she was "a grad."

Burt Reynolds Smokey and the Bandit Sally Field

Will do, laleo. I'll e-mail him again.

Groucho, thanks for apologizing like a man. And please quit banging your head on the wall. You're givn' me a headache.

No, laleo, not a peep.

Just a little correction, WW. I think you misunderstood HCW. He's an artist. He didn't edit the books. I worked in the Editorial Dept. of Way Pub, but I didn't edit VPW's books, either. I only occasionally proofread portions of them when they did a new edition. By the time I was on staff in the 80s, there was a small team of editors who worked on VPW's books. Earlier, his daughter Karen and Donna R and others did the editing. Just tryin' to keep the facts straight here. But I agree, WW. Mike is twisting the words of his beloved PFAL to make his case. Great observation!

I finally got around to seeing the video last night, and I loved it. Johnny Depp is a fabulous actor with incredible range. And the little boy who played Peter (not Peter Pan--the child Peter) was amazing. My heart melted just to look at his little face. The scene with him sitting with Barrie on the park bench toward the end of the film was priceless. I might even watch it again before I return it to Blockbuster, and I very rarely watch a movie more than once when I've first seen it. Geo, I think you watched a different movie. Or maybe the drinks cart rattling down the aisle distracted you. I've had those damn carts stop in the aisle and block my view right at the key scene in a movie! :)--> I think it was obvious that Barrie and his wife (at least in the movie) were a terrible mismatch. She was a social climber who worried about what people thought, and he was a troubled, though kind, man who couldn't have cared less about the social scene or people's opinions. I could clearly see the asexual aspect of the man through this movie. Now I'm looking forward to seeing Depp in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory! I liked the Gene Wilder version--Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory--years ago when I took my son to see it, but I bet this will be way better!

So Chas, do tell! How was it???

mj, your experience at work reminds me of a book I read in the 60s, Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin. Here's an excerpt from snopes.com: In 1959, after shaving his head and using drugs and ultraviolet light to darken his skin, Griffin spent six weeks travelling through the states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia posing as an itinerant black man in order to record a first-hand account of the virulent racism still prevalent in the Deep South. Griffin's account of his experiences, published as the book Black Like Me in 1961, is a gripping tale of degradation and cruelty — an account of a man who becomes the target of rudeness, indignities, insults, racial slurs, and violent threats, and is denied the basic necessities of life — a place to live, work, transportation, even the use of restrooms — simply because his skin is dark. Particularly revealing experiences came at the end of Griffin's investigation when he switched back and forth between his black and white identities and observed the negative reactions he received from people (both black and white) who had treated him kindly just days — or even hours — earlier. ***************************************************************************** The reason that's on snopes is that there's an urban legend that Griffin died of cancer as a result of the treatments he took to change his skin's pigmentation. Anyway, mj, I'll bet if you read that book, you'd find that your experineces are very similar to, though not as extreme as, his. The hate and prejudice underlying people's racism are the same.

Mike, I know you weren't addressing me, but a 100,000 of your posts, in a lifetime of sittings, would not convince me of what you're pushing. Take it from someone who is able to separate the bad things from the good things VPW did, someone who spent a fair amount of time in his presence and occasionally worked one-on-one with him, and someone who still values some of what was taught in PFAL: You are standing on dangerous ground. You have bought a three-legged horse and are convinced it's sound, and now you're obsessed with trying to convince others to buy a three-legged horse. You have taken the worst that VPW had to offer: an insistence that we can know more than anyone else about God if we just "work it," and you've built a relgion for yourself around it. It's your right to do so, but I think you're in for a rude awakening someday. Shortly after POP was read to the Corps for the first time, there were a lot of Corps people in a veritable panic: "What ever will we do without PFAL if we get booted from the ministry?" I momentarily got caught up in it and had actually agreed to help transcribe the PFAL tapes so that "we'd still have the class" if "they" took all the videos and tapes away from us. About halfway through transcribing segment one of session one it hit me: "God is bigger than PFAL. God is bigger than The Way International. This is stupid." Do you honestly think that God Almighty, the Creator of the universe, is so limited that He needs PFAL to teach people of His love and goodness and power? I think not.

HCW, good for Jasmine! I'm a little shocked that those kids would do that. My son was raised mostly in twi, but he didn't buy a lot of things twi was sellin', and as he got into his older teens he didn't want much to do with twi. (Smart kid I raised :)-->) What's up with THESE kids? Don't they know it's the time in their lives when they're supposed to spread their own wings and rebel a little bit?? I'm also a little surprised that NK school has become progressive enough to invite a holocaust survivor to speak. When my son went there 20 years ago, that never would have happened. Sounds like the school has changed for the better. The "no holocaust" line was something I didn't swallow even when I was "in." I admit that I did buy the "they're not really Jews" BS, but despite that I always figured, "I don't care if it was 6 million Jews, or 3 million Jews and 3 million Russians, or 0 Jews and 6 million Russians, a whole lot of innocent people were tortured and killed, and that's reprehensible." There was way too much right-wing extremism in VPW, and consequently too much of that influence on twi in general. I knew a couple John Birchers back when I was in, but I always assumed they were EX John Birchers and how cool it was that they'd "gotten delivered," just as I'd "gotten delivered" from the left-wing extremes of my youth. Now I know I was just naive!