Linda Z

Bobby

Danny Glover Gone Fishin' Joe Pesci

Always nice to see you, Mo. Hope you'll stop by again when life settles down a bit.

Hmmm, no response in nearly 3 days. I'd say Karmic, you stumped us. Take it away!

bliss, welcome to GS! I know exactly how your husband feels about there not being fellowship/good teaching outside twi. That's what I struggled with the most when I parted company with the organization. There are plenty of other fellowships run by exway folks, and there are churches if you can look past the trinity teachings and don't worry about every single word spoken there being "accurate." Love and fellowship don't require agreement on everything in the Bible. I think JustThinking and Shaz both make very good points. Especially since you still have other family members in, backing off slowly might do less to jeopardize your relationship with them than a big, dramatic confrontation or shoving the GS Web site URL under their noses. When I was a committed innie, if anyone had done either to me I'd have gone right into the defensive mode. Like Belle's husband, I would have said, "Any organization run by people will be imperfect, because people are imperfect," and I would have disregarded the criticism of leadership's behavior. If it's the corruption that bothered you, rather than the doctrine, one of the offshoots might be a "safe place to land." For some people these offshoots have been helpful in the transition from twi to some other form of fellowship. Others like the offshoots when they check them out, and they stick around. Of all the offshoots I'm aware of, CFF, so I hear, retains much of the doctrine of PFAL but isn't afraid to reexamine it. Its leaders don't want to repeat the mistakes/wrongs of twi. If you're near HQ, CFF's HQ isn't that far from you. I know both its founders, and they're good men. I don't recommend Chris G's group (former bus driver for VPW), for many reasons. A lot of people like CES (JAL's group), but I can't get past their promotion in the past of Momentus training (and their failure to renounce it today) or their "personal prophecy" doctrine. Or you can be like me. You can suddenly discover that you're quite capable of reading the Bible and seeking fellowship wherever you find it without joining any group. Whatever you decide, I wish you and your husband well.

Ham, you musta missed this: Pooor Ham. :(-->

Kevin Spacey Pay It Forward Helen Hunt And don't call me Shirley!

coolchef, when you talk to Chris, please tell him Linda Z from Family Corps V says a hearty hi! If he uses a different name, I won't know it's him when he gets here. :D-->

Satori, why are you aiming your sarcastic remarks at reikilady? Is it completely out of the question for you to simply debate a subject without the subtle (sometimes) digs? She didn't say he survived because she provided reiki therapy, did she? From what I read, this therapy is gaining approval in the "mainstream" medical community as a complementary, palliative treatment. It's comforting, for whatever reason. I haven't seen reikilady claim it cures cancer. Have you? Maybe she thinks it does, but that's for her to say. I haven't seen her state that or even imply it. More sarcasm. How uncharacteristic. Did you read any of the abstracts I posted? Do you want to honestly examine the subject of the subthread you started, or do you just want to pick on reikilady? Hmmmmm.

One comment to johniam, and then I'll comment on the thread. Johniam said: To that I can only say, this kind of thinking is nuckin' futs!!! Now, to being raised in twi: One thing I've noticed in reading the parts of this thread that actually have to do with growing up in twi is how articulate you guys who are in that category and post on GS are. I'm not crediting twi with that, but your parents and your own wonderful selves. The people on GS who grew up in twi are among my favorite posters--bright, funny, and well balanced. My hat's off to all of you! Oh, and Diazbro, I've really appreciated your posts in this thread. Well said, every one of them.

What I'm about to say in no way excuses the behavior of the person who, perhaps with the best of intentions, caused distress to exsie's dying father and to his family. I say whatever helps people is a good thing. If I took penicillin, I'd die, but it's cured billions of people. One bad experience with a reiki nurse, disburbing as it was to our much-loved exsie and her family, doesn't mean they're all bad, as Shellon's example has already quite clearly shown. It's been proven that the human touch has a healing effect. Whether it's because of chakra or the effect of touch on the nervous system, I don't much care. I don't see how having someone put their hands on you with the intention of making you feel better is a bad thing. There have been some studies. This is a small sampling of abstracts from those studies, gleaned from that bastion of hookey-pook, the National Library of Medicine's MEDLINE database. Here's one: J Adv Nurs 2001 Feb;33(4):439-45 Wardell DW; Engebretson J School of Nursing, University of Texas Houston Health Science Center, Houston, Texas, USA BACKGROUND: Despite the popularity of touch therapies, theoretical understanding of the mechanisms of effect is not well developed and there is limited research measuring biological outcomes. AIMS: The aim of this study was to test a framework of relaxation or stress reduction as a mechanism of touch therapy. METHODS: The study was conducted in 1996 and involved the examination of select physiological and biochemical effects and the experience of 30 minutes of Reiki, a form of touch therapy. A single group repeated measure design was used to study Reiki Touch's effects with a convenience sample of 23 essentially healthy subjects. Biological markers related to stress-reduction response included state anxiety, salivary IgA and cortisol, blood pressure, galvanic skin response (GSR), muscle tension and skin temperature. Data were collected before, during and immediately after the session. RESULTS: Comparing before and after measures, anxiety was significantly reduced, t(22)=2.45, P=0.02. Salivary IgA levels rose significantly, t(19)=2.33, P=0.03, however, salivary cortisol was not statistically significant. There was a significant drop in systolic blood pressure (SBP), F(2, 44)=6.60, P Here's another: J Altern Complement Med 2004 Dec;10(6):1077-81 Mackay N; Hansen S; McFarlane O Institute of Neurological Sciences, South Glasgow University Hospital NHS Trust, 1345 Govan Road, Glasgow G51 4TF, Scotland, UK. OBJECTIVES: to investigate if a complementary therapy, Reiki, has any effect on indices of autonomic nervous system function. DESIGN: Blind trial. SETTING/LOCATION: Quiet room in an out-patient clinic. SUBJECTS: Forty-five (45) subjects assigned at random into three groups. Interventions: Three treatment conditions: no treatment (rest only); Reiki treatment by experienced Reiki practitioner; and placebo treatment by a person with no knowledge of Reiki and who mimicked the Reiki treatment. OUTCOME MEASURES: Quantitative measures of autonomic nervous system function such as heart rate, cardiac vagal tone, blood pressure, cardiac sensitivity to baroreflex, and breathing activity were recorded continuously for each heartbeat. Values during and after the treatment period were compared with baseline data. RESULTS: Heart rate and diastolic blood pressure decreased significantly in the Reiki group compared to both placebo and control groups. CONCLUSIONS: The study indicates that Reiki has some effect on the autonomic nervous system. However, this was a pilot study with relatively few subjects and the changes were relatively small. The results justify further, larger studies to look at the biological effects of Reiki treatment. And another: J N Y State Nurses Assoc 2003 Spring-Summer;34(1):9-13 Gallob R University of Rochester School of Nursing, Loving Touch Center of East Rochester, NY, USA. Reiki is a complementary, energy-based healing modality. It has ancient roots, but is uniquely suited to modern nursing practice. Reiki training offers a precise technique for tapping into healing energy, or ki, and transmitting it through touch. Reiki treatments are gently balancing and provide energy that supports the well-being of the recipient in a holistic and individualistic way. Relaxation, pain relief, physical healing, reduced emotional distress, and a deepened awareness of spiritual connection are among the benefits attributed to Reiki in anecdotes, case studies, and exploratory research, as summarized in this review of literature. Reiki is easily adaptable to nursing practice in a variety of settings, and can provide support for the practitioners of Reiki themselves, as well as benefiting those they treat with Reiki. There are also studies that say more studies are needed. But this is NOT an unresearched complementary therapy in the medical community. There are LOTS of studies on it.

Oh, I don't know, karmic. I see your point, but if I spent my days thinking about nothing about how the world is going to hell in a handbasket, then I think I'd need lots of psychoanalysis. I do agree that there seems a to be a lot of need to prove oneself right around here and that in the grand scheme of things, Harry Potter books seem pretty inconsequential. But obviously some people are passionately for them and some are passionately against them. I don't see that particular argument as any different from the prochoice vs. prolife or the right vs. left political debates. Because of conflicting religious beliefs, it pushes people's buttons. Yes, the world is a scary place. I can't remember when it wasn't, though. When I was a small child, we had A-bomb drills in grade school (duck under your desk, the commies are coming!). When I was a teenager we were pretty sure Russia was going to bomb us to oblivion and some people were even building bomb shelters. When I was a young woman, 1,000s of our young men were dying in Vietnam, and I saw firsthand antiwar demonstrators being clubbed bloody in L.A. and saw them on TV being shot at Kent State. Actually, when I think about what's going on in the world today, an argument about Harry Potter books is sort of a respite from all that, by comparison.

Cool. Lonesome Dove Tommy Lee Jones The Fugitive (ewwwww, the Lifetime channel :(-->)

WhiteDove, please consider something I say. No, you didn't say outright anyone here is not spiritually vigilant or is "un-Christian" or whatever. But don't you see that you inferred those things? If taking a stand against Harry Potter books is being spiritually vigilant, then logically, your inferrence is that liking them is being spiritually asleep. Don't you see that? That's why people have been insulted. As for being kind and respectful, there have been lapses in that on both sides of this argument. But, WhiteDove, don't you also see that comments like "...thats why there is grace and forgiviness for those who still believe in that" are highly insulting? Heck, I'm a little insulted and I've never even read a doggone HP book, because it sounds like you're assuming that those of us who have disagreed with you don't believe in those things anymore.

Raf, do made-for-TV movies/miniseries count? :D-->

Easy Rider Jack Nicholson Terms of Endearment

What's haggis? Something you probably don't want to eat. :D--> From Merriam-Wesbster's online dictionary: Main Entry: hag·gis Pronunciation: 'ha-g&s Function: noun Etymology: Middle English hagese : a traditionally Scottish dish that consists of the heart, liver, and lungs of a sheep or a calf minced with suet, onions, oatmeal, and seasonings boiled in the stomach of the animal I don't think they'd have that in any self-respecting Irish restaurant, Ron. (insert emoticon for "shudder" here)

Kevlar, you're so funny. I wish you'd post more often (not just because you're funny, but that too!)

Jonny, poodle skirts are a fad. Popularity of a series of books isn't a fad, it's an expression of public opinion. Personally, fantasy isn't a fiction genre I enjoy much, but I certainly don't begrudge anyone else the pleasure they get from Harry Potter books. Apparently there's a reason for their popularity. I hear from adult friends at work who enjoy reading them with their children that they're well written, have great plots, and include wonderful lessons about friendship and loyalty and all that good stuff. WD, I don't have time to go back through your many posts. Let me just say that I like you, but I think you're maybe overreacting. When I first heard about the HP books, I had a similar reaction: "Oh boy, witchcraft and spells--yuck." Then I saw the first Harry Potter movie and saw why the books were popular. Lots of adventure and laughs and fun. The "magic" part is secondary. It's a fictional device to give the stories color. The point someone else made about all the other fantasy/fairy tales we grew up with not doing us irreparable harm is a good one. I didn't believe growing up that the Good Fairy was going to wave her magic wand and send me to the prom in a converted pumpkin, a la Cinderella. I didn't think that the Good Witch in The Wizard of Oz was a role model, and I didn't rush out to a seance when I watched all the cheesy horror movies in the early 60s that featured them. In short, kids know the difference between fantasy and reality. It's a pretend world Harry lives in, which serves as a backdrop for real human feelings and character. I guess you could call the HP stories allegorical and, as someone pointed out, C.S. Lewis wrote fantasy that the Christian world is ga-ga over. I'm not suggesting that this discussion should stop, but I will say it would have been a short one if everyone just respected each other's opposing opinions and said, "Hey, we disagree. Won't be the first time!" Oh, and by the way, WhiteDove, I'm still very much a Christian, and many of the pro-Harry posters in this thread are, too, so don't think that only those who have "forsaken the faith" are "soft" on Harry Potter or persecuting you, the lone Christian in this thread. I understand your concern. I just think it's misplaced.

Oh you men. Always obsessed with size. :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->

Aw c'mon. I'd hardly call someone used by VPW, as was alleged, a "perpetrator of evil." And Groucho, I've voiced the same complaint when gossip about men has been posted in the past, so ya can't hang that one on me.

{{{Exsie}}} Love you a lot and I'm praying for your family, especially your sweet son.

And another thing... What really irked me about the thread that prompted this discussion is that I saw plenty of trashing people's good names and reputations going on in twi behind the scenes. It was an attitude of "Look what dirt I, know. Aren't I spiritual? Aren't I cool to be so in the loop?" I saw it in leadership, under the guise of "helping" people. "Oh, did you know so-and-so never cleans her house? We need to help her in that area of her walk." Pssst pssst pssst, whisper, whisper, whisper. I was no angel. I got caught up in it sometimes, too. Maybe our lives were so boring that a little buzz about someone getting kicked off staff for getting drunk and wrecking one of the HQ vehicles put a little excitement in life...sorta like a soap opera. I don't think it makes me cool if I know someone has a past he or she isn't proud of. I think it makes me even less cool if I have to show how "in the know" I am by trotting out someone's dirty laundry--whether real or imagined--for all to cluck their tongues at.

The way I see it, there's useful criticism and necessary exposure of wrongdoing, past and present, and there's empty gossip. Examples of the former: criticizing the current actions of the Right Rev. RFR or her immediate underlings might open someone's eyes to the fact that they really ought to be thinkin' about packing their bags and gettin' outa New Knoxville. Exposing the hurtful deeds that happened to you might comfort the heart of someone who was likewise hurt or used. In contrast, just throwing out a statement like "it's common knowledge that she was VPW's mistress for years" offers no real benefit that I can see. First, maybe this person (I'm not referring to the specific person so accused--this is just an example) regretted her former actions and turned her life around. Maybe the "common knowledge" was nothing more than a false rumor started by someone who was jealous or ticked off. Maybe her children are regulars here and would be cut to the heart to hear this about their mother. I don't see that the rules have changed much, really. Naming names has always been discouraged, except for the BOD/T. I think Raf has a point. If someone makes his/her name public by filing a lawsuit or pursuing a cause like Doug did, then it would be darn hard to discuss without naming names.

Darn, you're right, it did. You must be proud. :P-->