Linda Z

Kathy, I envy your audio-style photographic memory! All these themes sound familiar, but I can't remember what any of them are from. This is why I mostly lurk in this nostalgia booth at the cafe. I know nuttin'!!

Top, those "no Holocaust" books were sold in twi's bookstore in the 70s and 80s, and VP was the prime promoter. I believe he touched on this during the AC when I took it at Emporia in '77. I remember thinking, "What difference does it make if all 6 million were Jewish or not. If 6 million people got slaughtered, how does their religious/ethnic background change the horror of that one iota?" Not one of the brighter sides of the VP era.

A

Hahahahaha, Tom, you set me up. You nudged me toward the answer, knowing I'd have to post pics. Waaaaaa. Ok, let me see what I can do. :unsure:

Oh Psaaaaaaalmie. This is for you. We had a little pig just like this at Rome City. I tried to make him our mascot. He wasn't crazy about the idea. He was sooooooooooooooo cute.

{{Chatty}} So sorry this thread is dredging up hurtful memories for you. Thank you for your openness with us. Yes, Satori, I agree--it probably will never happen, but your idea of a preventive "safe harbor" seems sound to me. I'm sure that when some of these people feel twisted urges, before they ever act on them, they might be able to recognize that what they're feeling would bring harm to a child if carried out. If they had somewhere to go or some way to to get the help to stop them, that would be a good thing. Pond, I've heard of cases like that before, where the molester has begged for castration to keep him from committing the same crime again and has been refused. I find that infuriating, like the goofballs picketing outside a prison when someone's about to be executed, begging for mercy that the person did not seek and does not want. I don't know, Kathy, about what people will do to the grandpas. But you're right--so often that's who it is, not some stranger off the street, but a grandpa or an uncle or a favorite neighbor. It's such a puzzling mental zig that shoulda been a zag. I can't for the life of me comprehend it.

Oh! Shall We Dance?

Tonto, your description gave me the best laugh I've had in days. Thank you thank you thank you.

Excellent, your socksness, just brilliant. Your tune made me do the head-bobbing thing that causes my son to laugh at me when we're cruisin' down the road with the radio cranked up high.

You know, I'm a proponent of the death penalty in unequivocally proven cases of murder, violent rape and, yes, even child molestation involving rape. One side of me wants the uncle of the 7-month-old to die a painful death. But I think it's important to step back from the understandable emotion of this whole issue and consider other possibile solutions. We say these people are "sick," and I'd certainly agree with that! So the solution to mental illness is execution? I dunno. Satori's safe harbor (or whatever he called it) idea sounds like an alternative worth giving some thought to.

Shell, thanks, but I don't need to picture a little girl. I can picture myself being dragged onto my best friend's grandpa's lap for his 1950s version of lap dances. And I got off way easier than my two best friends who both suffered much more severe forms of sexual molestation by another elderly man in our neighborhood and his grandson. I'm not saying that what these people do isn't horrible and reprehensible. I'm not "arguing about their rights" as you allege. I don't recall saying they have any rights. All I'm asking is for you to consider Satori's theoretical question: What if YOUR child became a pedophile as an adult because of a traumatic experience he or she had suffered as a child at the hands of a pedophile? So where does the cycle end? If victims often becomes victimizers, how do we get it to stop? Is there any solution short of killing all the victims that later became victimizers? I think those are some valid questions. When I hear about a grown man putting his penis anywhere NEAR the teeny, tiny vagina of a 7-MONTH-OLD little girl, I don't know whether to cry, barf, or grab a torch start a lynch mob. But on a less emotional level, are there any other solutions besides "kill 'em...kill 'em all!!"? GingerTea ( in case you ever lurk here) used to say, "Damaged people damage people." That's not an excuse, but it sure begs the question, "How do we stop the cycle?" Is there any way besides death???

T-Bone, I guess Lucky wasn't so lucky after all. What a hoot! Poooor Lucky. I loved the pigs at Rome City and still love pigs. (Where's Psalmie to back me up on this???) I'll never forget going out to feed the sheep and goats one day. One big old sheep was lying in front of the gate, which swung into the pen to open. I yelled. I poked. I shoved gate up against the sheep. It wouldn't budge. Finally I went and got Lenny G., the staff guy in charge of the farm, complaining, "This darn sheep is sooooooo stubborn that it will NOT move so that I can get in and feed everyone." Lenny figured it out right away, and he "wasn't even Corps" (total sarcasm here!!). "Linda, that sheep won't move because it can't. It's dead." Well! So much for MY in-depth spiritual perception and awareness! Another vivid farm memory: Watching a ewe give birth to two little lambs late one night during bless patrol. I think that was the only time in my life bless patrol was a blessing. :D

Skyrider: I don't know about teaching to support a main theme or whatever you mean, but yes, the in-rez Corps did teachings and sharings. Body, Soul & Spirit Week used to be so much fun, with all the different backgrounds people had and the adventures they'd experienced. Our "family" there ranged from newborns to Clarence G.--I'll bet many of you knew him as the oldest WOW--who must have been in his 80s.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you all, I think everyone missed an important question Satori was asking. I'll paraphrase: What if your child were molested and that somehow caused him or her to become a pedophilie someday? All the "just kill 'em" bravado aside, doesn't that question make you stop and think, even a little, about whether you'd want to kill your own child for becoming a pervert as a result of being attacked by one? I've got no sympathy for pedophiles, and my heart goes out to those of you who were molested as children. But I don't know if killing the known ones would rid the earth of the pedophilia scourge. I'm sure new ones would just spring up in their places. I like Satori's idea. Let them voluntarily go to some place where they'd be kept from being a threat to society.

Skyrider said: "All of those comparisons of regular corps is more committed.....or visa versa......just stupid, carnal, mind games." Thanks for saying that, SR. I heartily agree! Oooh, Branch duties--I'd forgotten about those. At Rome City we had dining room set-up ("make sure you bring your 'incher'!"), scullery duty, chapel set-up (that's where our chair stringing came in), and lots of others. We also had special "work days" where everyone helped dig a big trench or clean the moat or pick up rocks or whatever. I didn't mind the work days--they were really sorta fun, all working together and joking about paying for the privilege of digging a ditch. When at Rome City, VPW liked to call work days in the woods--we'd spend hours picking up dead wood and chopping/splitting firewood, and invariably we'd have a wonderful bonfire. I don't recall a lot of yelling in residence. I do remember once VPW yelling at our elder Corps, who failed to dress up appropriately for a class or for some visiting twi dignitary or other. TJ, later of Gunnison fame, used to yell at us but we just sorta snickered. When I heard he'd become such a tyrant at Gunnison I was surprised, because his yelling in Indiana always seemed sorta tongue-in-cheek and no one took him all that seriously. One of the things I liked most about the Family Corps was the wide diversity of ages, personalities, talents, and experiences it brought together. Between us, we could come up with a way to pull off just about any event we wanted to. There were amazing musicians and artists and farmers and mechanics and disc jockeys and nurses and successful business people of several types--we even had a real-live physician in our Corps. Want a hayride or an intramural football game? We could do that in a blink. Want a formal dinner with chamber music? No problem. I'd never been among such a great group of people before and I still haven't to this day. We could debate (and have!) the bad and good of twi all day long, but I can say one thing for sure: It attracted some incredibly wonderful, talented people, many of whom ended up in the Corps (and I hasten to add that there were many, many equally wonderful and talented people who didn't go into the Corps).

Sorry Skyrider--back to the original topic: The good for me outweighed the bad and the ugly (although those elements weren't missing entirely!) The good: I really enjoyed some of the classes, like OT History, Early Church History--anything that wasn't rehashed PFAL (I liked PFAL--I just didn't see the greatness of sitting through it repeatedly). I enjoyed the heck out of having the time my last in-rez year to work on my research paper. That was a luxury and a joy. The skits and the dances and parties and crazy stunts were a hoot, and the people for the most part were fabulous. Only a handful had that "climbing the corporate ladder" gleam in their eyes in the Family Corps in the late 70s, thank God. Being on the Indiana Campus was, for me, heavenly. I loved the buildings and the grounds and the woods and the little lake and the animals on the farm. Working 4 hours a day was a break for me, because as a single mom I'd sometimes held 2 and 3 jobs at once to support my child. The bad: The pace was pretty insane, even in the Family Corps. Up before dawn to exercise, run, get the kids ready for school, breakfast, 1/2 day job, class, homework, help kids with homework, evening class or meeting, nightowls. Makes me cringe to even think about it. The ugly: Getting screaamed at for not ratting out younger Corps girls whose room was not freekin' perfect when charged with doing a room inspection during a particularly hectic week. What was it, summer camp, for crying out loud? Getting screamed at by D. Moynihan for not "respecting a man of God" when I didn't take his crap while our Twigs were doing "chapel set-up" together (love ya still, Ron ) I told her when he acted like a man of God I'd treat him like one. That went over well. Seeing people struggle to all fit into the same mold, for fear they'd get kicked out of the Corps--like during "Christian Communications" or Lightbearers or other challenges. L.E.A.D. was good, bad AND ugly all by itself! I liked the rapelling. Although I was not fond of the scorpion family I met on my "duo" or the snakes and spiders encountered at other times, it was a good exercise in trusting God to keep me safe. :D I do wish I'd made good my threat to sit on that stupid ledge till they sent an effing helicopter to rescue me. I cratered and got bullied into finishing the climb. :) What the hel l? I was a 35-year-old woman, and it was somehow necessary for me to prove my freekin' spirituality by rock climbing on climbs that 20-somethings found challenging? Sheesh.

Rhino said: "Oh look, Linda is all over that ." Heh heh, that's because I'm such a chicken when I fly that I actually pay attention to the safety talk--every single time I fly. When others are casually reading their In-Flight magazines and trying to find a comfy position (ha!) for a nap, too cooooool to listen to the safety rap, I'm there, watching and listening, in case there's anything I missed the other few dozen times I've heard it.

kierkegaard, welcome. Your post brought tears to my eyes. So often when we think of people leaving/getting kicked out of twi, our sympathies go straight to the parties departing. I think there's often a tendency to think of those who stayed in as heartless and uncaring, but you've just given a glimpse of what it was like to have your friends seem to "vanish" and the "truths" you knew change like shifting sands. How sad to go through that as a child and not understand what was happening. Rascal, I never heard VPW say anything like that about sacrificing our kids. In fact, I never even heard Craig say anythihng that extreme while I was still around, though he might have later. Minor point re: your post, Belle: It's standard procedure for adults to put on their own oxygen masks in an air emergency before putting them on their children. That's not a "twi thing"; it's part of the safety talk a flight attendant delivers at the start of every commercial flight--I guess cuz parents won't be much use to kids if they pass out for lack of oxygen.

Ron, you really yanked that one out of context. CW, on their Web site, under "Our Vision," what it says is: "At Revolution we believe that we were created by a relational God to be relational people, therefore "self-sufficiency," which leads to a world of isolation from meaningful relationships, is a farce and should be avoided." They're clearly not talking about self-sufficiency in terms of self-reliance but in terms of "no man is an island." Tsk tsk, Ron. I'll admit I'm wary, but I don't see the point of misquotihng these folks.

I'm particularly appalled by Bob Moynihan's letters. Bob, if you're peeking in here, you know how much I once loved and respected you. Look at yourself. How can you dole out so much condemnation and parrot that crap that is passed off as God's Word in the Way Ministry today? Reading your words has saddened me greatly. Side note: Mr. Lingo, the letters weren't scanned in--they were retyped. So it's quite possible the typoes came from our own Belle's nimble fingers and not those of LCM's secretary.

As a former HQ staffer, and in the interests of truth in advertising, their ad needs a few revisions: Attention: Advance Class Graduates! You are invited......... [translation: we are losing workers faster than we can replace them] ..... to be part of a life changing, experience [fine print: We didn't say it's necessarily a change for the better, did we?], slaving on Staff at The Way International Headquarters! Picture yourself working side by side with an abundance of yes-men and -women, Way Corps grads who have climbed to the top of the corporate ladder, and the Board of Directors [Rozilla the Legalist, Harvey her Lap Dog, and Jean the the Lean, Mean, Information-Spinning Machine]. Imagine yourself being required to eat every single solitary noon meal in the OSC and being part of the heart beat of the prevailing word as it moves out to the world [which it's already OVER by the way]. Picture yourself being forced to attend every Sunday Teaching Service, every Sunday morning fellowship, every staff meeting, every Corps meeting if you’re a Corps grad, every “work fellowship," every class that Rozilla decides the staff needs to sit through again--live and in color"and contributing to the believing efforts of moving God's word to the world [which, did we mention, it’s already OVER?] from a beautiful cornfield in rural Ohio. Our local villages and communities provide the picture-perfect American small-town atomsphere. The local top-ranked schools, which boast science teachers who inform young teens that “if they masturbate they’re gay” and spew other similar gems, in a K-12 school that was built in 1910 and has the latest technology [e.g., telephones, electricity, and running water]. In addition, there are more than a dozen colleges and universties within a 50 mile radius, although you won’t have the time or money to attend. And yes, there's plenty to do in your leisure time, too—well, if you had any leisure time, that is!. If this kind of mind-numbing opportunity is what you're looking for, then slaving on the Staff of The Way International may be just for you! :P :P :P

Alas, I'm not in touch with my cousins and have lost touch with my ex. I did notice when I visited him there in about 1989 or '90 that the town had already changed a lot by then from how it had been when I was a young woman visiting there. I hope your exhibit goes superbly! Being incredibly untalented in the art category, I'm so impressed that people can pull colors and textures and light and shadow together in such a way that it "speaks." Too cool. BTW, I'm a native Oregonian too, born in Salem, but I think I've lost all my merit badges, being gone from there for decades.

Wonderful site, Todd. My favorite piece is Eros & Agape XVII. A bit off topic, but knowing you're exhibiting in Prineville made me smile. My grandparents lived there years ago, and I still have cousins and an exhusband there. Small world! Do you live near there (if you don't mind my asking)?

VPW got the Twighopper long after that photo was in the Toledo paper. Doesn't the ebay listing say the seller bought the bike from the Way? If so, apparently it wasn't twi selling it because they already did.

Clarification of my earlier post: The incident happened in 1981/82, so it was probably summer '82, before ROA. The RC's initials were not RA (whom I loved and never saw treat anyone badly). This guy came immediately after RA.