Linda Z

Congratulations, Twinky! I know how long you've been looking, and I give you lots of credit for hanging in there! Who knows, maybe this job will lead to something even better!

Thanks, Krys, and the same to you. It's my fave holiday because it's the least commercialized. Thanksgiving means family and friends and thankfulness. How could we go wrong? :) Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

The key word in this article is at the top of the page: "Advertorial." That's publishing-speak for an advertisement that is written to appear to be a regular, unbiased article. Whenever you see that word, you have to remember what you're reading is simply an ad all spiffed up in a nice dress. I haven't decided what I think yet. One medical journal article I read about a year ago said the chemicals used in e-cigarettes are as bad as what's in the real thing, so I'm still a bit wary. It's tempting though. No doubt the tobacco companies hate these things--unless, of course, some of them own the companies that make the e-cigs. It would make sense. The number of smokers is declining. Why not branch out and give your customer base an alternative to make up for the lost revenue? Now, wouldn't that be a real kick in the pants?

Great teaching, Bow!

Hey, Trefor! Nice to "see" you. It's been a while. I suspect they don't trot out VPW's name for the general public, but I have a hunch he's quoted/adulated extensively "within the ranks."

It is a beautiful place. Too bad none of us will ever be allowed to step foot there again, even though our "donations" helped to build it. When I clicked on the link, several other Way-related YouTube videos came up in the list on the right (including the infamous dance number spoofed on The Soup). I thought twi got that taken down. Perhaps they don't have enough clout. There are other Way Prod song and "dance" videos posted there now, too. It looks like the choreography is done by a 1950s space movie robot. And there must have been a big sale on navy blue polyester for the Singing Ladies' wardrobes. Sad, just sad.

Although I disagree with ClayJay's politics most of the time, I have to stick up for him here. The meaning in his post in this thread was perfectly clear to me. He was pointing out twi's hypocrisy, and I thought it was an astute observation.

Yeah, that policy has Rosalie's name written all over it. When I worked in Way Pub, she tried to make us sign out to go to the bathroom. That didn't last long, once Don W heard about it.

I'm so glad I planned twi out of my life before they tried to plan my life for me. Good Lord in heaven, what an intrusion, what an outrage. Many of the wrongs committed by twi leadership, while I don't condone them, I can at least understand the origins of. The more run-of-the-mill sins arose from human failings, like lust and greed--characteristics we're all familiar with. But this? Who the hell do these people think they are, gods on a stick? Where in the Bible does it say anything about "planning the adversary out of your life"? Oh wait, I forgot. Rosalie Rivenbark told me I didn't need to read the Bible because I had to read Way Pub materials in my daily work. Silly me. Why would I want to read the Bible for myself, anyway? Oh, I know! So I wouldn't fall for ridiculous BS like "checking in with my 'leadership'" whenever I needed to go buy a loaf of bread. How they've kept anyone in that organization after pulling stunts like that is beyond my comprehension.

I have a soft spot in my heart for miners because my great-grandfather was one in Illinois, my great-great-grandfather was one in the north of England (and maybe his father before him), some other ancestors, and some cousins. It's not an easy life, for sure. I watched the first few rescues, then some the next morning, and the last few. I had to wonder how the last rescuer felt, down deep in that mine by himself, waiting to go up to the surface. I was more nervous for him than for the rest! I hope this incident raises the bar for mine safety around the world. It's never going to be perfect because it's inherently dangerous, but clearly chances are taken that never should be.

Bob and Dottie were there much later, like the early 1990s, weren't they? In the 50s they were toddlers, and in the 60s they weren't yet with twi, to my knowledge, unless it was the very late 60s.

I received this from the FDA this morning, and since there are so many pet lovers here, thought I should share it. Please click on the link and view the brief video about buying your pet's medications online. http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm227350.htm

Great points, Sunesis. I've thought a lot about this myself, and was thinking about it while still in and growing dissatisfied. When I was involved in the Jesus movement in Southern California in the late 60s, it was spreading organically. The home fellowship I got involved in wasn't part of any hierarchy, and in fact wasn't associated with any other home fellowships. People fellowshipped together because they wanted to, not because they were assigned to go somewhere. People witnessed because they were seeing signs, miracles, and wonders, not because there was a structured "witnessing night." The growth happened naturally. It seemed that way when I first got into twi in '72, too. The "Way tree" was in place by then, but we didn't initially feel the strong arm of HQ. PFAL classes at that time had waiting lists--a stark contrast to what I hear about twi today....tiny classes and few of them running. I had to wait for a class myself because the one that was about to run when I got interested already filled the room they'd rented for it. Classes were running back to back, and in mine there were at least 20 new students. Ironically, the fellowship I'd been in in Calif. fell apart, too. They had a lot of enthusiasm but not much knowledge of the Bible, really. So I was ripe for the picking when I heard that verse in PFAL, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." I thought, "Aha, that's what happened to our group! Won't it be great to have knowledge!" But then there's that verse about "knowledge puffeth up" (in contrast to love, which edifies). Enthusiasm and knowledge are both good, but they have to be in balance. Enthusiasm without at least a basic knowledge of the Bible can cause groups to disintegrate or get usurped, and knowledge without love can cause even a relatively large group to implode on itself, as we've all seen. If those early Jesus movement groups had had more knowledge of the Bible, they might not have been such easy prey for those who would come along and take over. They might have been wise as serpents while staying innocent as doves. And if groups like twi (and many like it) had not been so hell-bent on accumulating knowledge (and money, power, and acclaim) and had been more about love, compassion, and kindness, and letting people live their own lives, perhaps things would have gone differently.

Chockfull, I don't think forgiveness and speaking up are mutually exlusive. I can forgive someone and still warn others about that person's patterns of behavior...make that misbehavior. I don't think forgiveness is a weak thing at all. It takes a conscious decision and some mental/emotional effort. Please don't misunderstand. I'm a big fan of accountability. I'm just not the one keeping track of everyone's accounts. Where grace and mercy will be given, and where they won't, is up to God. He's the one who knows all our hearts.

Re: the original question: RFR apologized to me once, but it was an empty apology. She apologized for "hurting my feelin's" when, in fact, my feelings weren't hurt. I was angry because she lied to me and tried to manipulate me, so I called her out on it. She never owned up to the actual wrongs. So yes, she apologized, but her apology was laughable. Nevertheless, I've forgiven her (a) because I believe it's required of me as a Christian and (b) because not to do so would give her too much importance in my life. I'm not going to carry the burden of bitterness around on my back just because I never got a real apology from her. Life's too short for me to sit around worrying about whether someone else does the right thing. I have enough to do to keep my own ducks in a row.

Socksness, that's the most clear, succinct argument for forgiveness I've seen posted in these forums in all the years I've been around here. For those who no longer consider the words of Jesus valid or applicable to their lives, I guess they "pays their money and they takes their chances," but for those who still profess to be Christians, I don't see any way around it. The Man says forgive. Period. No, "except when..." or "unless you don't want to" clauses are stuck in there. If anyone ever had the right not to forgive, he certainly did, so when he speaks on this subject, I think it behooves us to take heed. And you're so right. Each of us has to own up to our own shortcomings, both in this life and the next. The final justice is in God's hands. My forgiving someone doesn't mean that person is off the hook with Him, and He knows things (oh, so many things!) that I don't have a clue about, so I figure He's the best judge.

That would seem to imply that she was at one time. I don't think that was the case. I don't want to speak for someone who's not here to speak for herself, but to my knowledge, she was/is neither a fan nor a follower of Geer. I think any positive opinion she might have once had of him changed after a visit to Gartmore in the late 1980s. I can't believe Su* M buys into his crap; I thought she had a better head on her shoulders. Actually, I can't believe anyone buys into it. I don't know about now, but I think shortly after the POP debacle and for some time thereafter, most of the former Ohio leadership were associated with Geer.

She tried to "teach" me during my last staff evaluation in 1986 that I didn't need to have any time for personal reading/study of the Bible because, after all, I was reading the Way Magazine and other Way Pubs in the course of my work every day. That was just one of many red flags she waved in my face. Thanks, Rosalie. If I hadn't seen your true colors I might have stuck around longer than I did. And realizing that VPW gave a woman like her so much responsibility was another eye opener. It became clear to me that his judgment was nowhere near the spiritual level I had once thought it was. Back to the original question of this thread, I can't imagine she was ever an inspiring high school teacher. I never saw her teach in twi. All I ever saw her do was parrot the party line and spit out indoctrination. Oh...and rules...lots and lots of rules.

Groucho said: Actually, I think it was prompted by information from one of VPW's right-wing conspiracy theory sources, more than just being contrived as a training exercise. I think it was believed that the "commies" were coming or something. And it didn't just "get" outside Emporia, if you mean you think it just sort of leaked out. Specific instructions were sent to all the Corps on the field to buy storable food, fishing rods, wood stoves, etc. I was a WOW team coordinator that year (79-80), so the WOWs in my city knew about it, too. It would have been pretty hard to explain buying a wood stove and flour mill and all the other stuff we were instructed to buy without their knowing. We sold all the stuff at a garage sale at the end of the WOW year.

Socks said to Pax: I'm sure he'll be by to answer your questions...in a year, maybe two. :D

They didn't have to ask me. I just stopped. No checks, either.

What About it said: Sorry to derail the thread further, but it's nice to "meet" another editor. We keep the file for the manuscript intact so that we can refer back to the original as needed, and we edit on a separate file. Welcome, Cal! I can't believe they're still sending out casettes. They probably have a warehouse full of them. Congrats on your decision to "fade out." That's what I did when I left. I sure didn't miss all the mandatory meetings and classes!!!

Just to clarify, he didn't say anything about computers being evil. He objected to using them for researching the Bible. Personally, although I love books and have a houseful, I find it much easier to look up something in the Bible in an online version, rather than pulling out a huge concordance.

OldSkool, I was surprised that instructions for authors in the last link you posted still called for paper submissions with disks. The journal I manage doesn't even accept hard-copy submissions anymore. For the past two years we've used an online submission system. It's a bit cumbersome and buggy, but it's better than receiving all the tattered and torn envelopes from around the world, filled with four copies of every manuscript and four copies of every photo/illustration. Back to the subject at hand, what I find amazing is RFR's aversion to computers. One of the last things I did in Way Pub in 1986 was take a class from the IT dept. on using a computer. My memory's kind of fuzzy, but I think the brand was Leading Edge. What happened to all those computers? (Of course, those particular computers are probably in a computer museum somewhere (:D), but I do find it amazing that they don't use computers for any part of the editing process.) I vaguely remember VPW pitching a fit when a Way Mag cover featured a (posed) photo of a family sitting around a computer with their open Bibles and concordances, apparently using the computer to research the Bible. I forget what his objection was, but he was steamed. Heck, my almost-91-year-old dad, until he became ill a month ago, did all his correspondence via e-mail and was a frequent EBay buyer and seller of items he collects. Get with it, Rosie the Pivoter! This is not 1959.

Do you have change for a dollar?