Linda Z

He's still hot!

Thanks, everyone!

My old cell phone works fine, but I switched providers and it doesn't work with the new service. It seems I've heard you can donate them to places like shelters for abused women, but I'm not sure. Has anyone heard of such a thing? I hate to just throw it out.

sogwap, this isn't another Corps-bashing thread. It's about the rules the current Corps are expected to follow.

Krys, I understand why this is a hot button for you, and I'm sorry for the unbelievable hurt you and your family have gone through. I just don't think there was any evil intent on the part of the people who are being painted with a broad brush here.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading that. I think I'd rather laugh. They make it sound like they're planning the Olympics for crying out loud. Here's my plan: Get the oil changed in the car. Pack. Lock up the house. Make sure we have money and snacks. Look at a map, then freekin' drive. Sheesh.

{{{Likeaneagle}}} I think you're wonderful. I don't think you (or Eagle, in starting this thread) had any malicious intent or desire to know all the gorey details. Krys, I like you and respect your opinions, but I think what you've posted is uncharacteristically unfair of you. I have to wonder if you read the whole thread, or if maybe you just reacting to one or two obnoxious posts. As Simon said, I also know only one person who came forward on GSC and directly stated that VPW abused her, and I can think of two or three who have said he tried something with them or a friend or family member. I have no doubt whatsoever that they're telling the truth. Not one iota. I want people to do what THEY need to do when it comes to this subject. In other words, no one is obligated to tell his or her story here and no one ever should feel obligated or be pressured in any way. On the other hand, if telling one's story helps people heal, I think they should tell it as often as they need and want to and not be berated for retelling it. If SOME people don't want to read it, they should skip posts on the topic. Having said all that, I don't think Eagle's question was out of line. Some people only post here occasionally. That is their right. Some people haven't read every thread. Some people come here as newbies and are trying to sort things out. What would better help them to do that: facts or third- and fourth- and whatever-hand stories that have reached urban legend proportions? I've thought about this thread for the past couple days now, pondering whether it might be worth a poll. That way people could share their experiences totally anonymously, yet people who want to know could get some answers. The poll choices would go something like this: --I was forced to have sex with VPW (i.e., he raped me). --VPW manipulated me into having sex with him (i.e., he abused his position as a minister and harmed me). --VPW tried to entice me into having sex with him but didn't succeed. --I had sex with VPW willingly. --I was never approached by VPW for sex (and never approached him). I'd like to know what people think of this idea before I actually post a poll. Maybe just the fact that there's a poll would be hurtful to people who were abused. I don't want that, so that's why I'm asking. If it's a stupid idea, we can forget it. It just seems like a way to get to some facts rather than "somebody told my friend who told her sister who told me." I would love to see people who have firsthand knowledge participate in the poll. Just a thought.

CW asked: Honestly, I don't think this feeling is unique to exwayfers at all. I think you've just described the human condition. I only think it's odd in the sense that we humans, the whole lot of us, are a bit odd. I don't know anyone who doesn't dream of being better off financially or better looking or a better parent or smarter or thinner or...the list is limitless. Most conversations around the water cooler at work revolve around these things in some way or another. Being "unsatisfied" can, of course, be taken to the point of unhappiness. That's where we get into trouble. Wasn't it Paul who wrote about being content with where you are? "I know how to be abased and how to abound." As I get older, I try to live that way, realizing that life is what it is. There are great days and there are some really crappy days. That's life. Recognizing that doesn't mean giving up...it just means we can be content with where we are at any given moment. That doesn't mean we can't hope and expect and pray for more in some categories. Maybe I'm missing your point, but those are my Saturday morning musings on the subject.

Wow, a photo finish! You're both correct, but George beat ya to it, Dooj.

Hi DB! Nice to see ya here. I enjoyed seeing your face in Ted's wedding photos. I remember you fondly from Way Pub (when it was still sorta fun, before the Iron Queen took over). Linda Z

You're very, very close, George. "Bringing Up" is correct. "Father" is not. Hint: The type of animal isn't important. And George, thanks for pointing me to page 22 and the instructions on posting full-size photos! I used it to post a picture in George Aar's b'day greeitng, and it worked the first time. I'll use that method here in the future. I'm having connectivity problems...something with my stupid cable access. So if I can't get back on after someone guesses right, you guys be the judges. :)

Happy, happy, b'day, to our favorite curmudgeon-san!

Sorry Tommy. :( I don't have a Web site to park photos on so I can post 'em big here. I don't know why they're not enlarging when you click on 'em. *sniff* Hmmm, maybe if I describe the two that are sorta hard to see. The second photo is of a little girl manning the Salvation Army kettle and the third is of an ascending rocket/space shuttle. The other two look pretty clear, so I won't describe those.

A la asked: I never thought he was anything but "only a man." I never thought he was without faults. I knew he was a self-promoting showman and had a big ego. I disagree about the "not much else." I think he started out with a genuine ministry and got corrupted, and there were times when I saw the genuine shine through. I've said it before, but this seems like a good place to repeat it: It's my opinion that the good things he did didn't excuse the wrong things he did, and that the wrong things he did didn't change the fact that sometimes he did good things. The man was a paradox. I'm glad it's God's job, and not mine, to sort it all out.

Geo, this explains a lot!!!

I was wondering the same thing. You okay, Belle?

Nice to see you, Hills. Hey, I never said I believed it; I said it made me go "hmmmmm." But the snopes Web site cleared it right up. Now, sit down and have a beer on me. And don't be gone so damn long. Work is no excuse.

ex10, I agree with you. He screwed up...badly...and hurt people in the process. But I do believe he believed in what he taught and believed he could help people with it. Dave Anderson (before he was run off by a few people who mercilessly mocked him for some of his alternative medicine opinions) used to say where VP went wrong was believing his own PR. Power, even the amount of power a big fish in a small pond gets, does corrupt. A la, I'm familiar with VP's bravado, but this really wasn't like that. It's very hard to find the words to explain to someone who wasn't there. He wasn't "working the crowd." I'd seen that enough to know the difference. I think it was genuine. And maybe it was too little too late, but it was a clear warning, to me. It made me sit up and take notice and ask myself where my head was: on God Almighty or on an organization? I don't know how to say it...it was an experience unlike any other I had when around him.

Sudo, click on "Gallery" at the top. They're in there. Abi, great pictures. Glad you all had such a good time!

Oh dear, now I have to think. I'll be back later...gotta go visit my folks for a bit.

jard, I might be mistaken, but I think she means that in the sense that she got into a group that was spawned from twi.

There ya go, proving my point for me again. Thanks, Allan!

And that, too. Lily, I believe her name is. What a guy.

George, that's not Val Kilmer. It's Guy something, the lead actor in Memento... Had to go look it up: Guy Pearce.