Linda Z

I was on staff at the time and was there. I don't remember all the details but I do remember that it was simple. Several clergy carried the casket (plain wood as I recall, made by staff Wayfers but I forget who, specifically) across the "Asphalt Terrace" and down the driveway to the front lawn of the Wierwille home, where VPW was to be buried. Some people said a few words. I don't recall it being very long or full of the usual hoopla of Way events.

I was in my second year of residence in 80-81, and it was the 5th Corps that came "back in residence" with us at Rome City. I'm positive that's correct, because I became close friends with several of them. Are you sure the 4th Corps didn't come back for "retraining" in 79-80, skyrider?

I rarely venture into "Doctrinal" because I don't relish arguing doctrine. However, I have a simple response to the (IMO) mistaken premise of "Ten Reasons Why Most Believers Don't Seriously Question Their Faith." For me, and I'd bet for many people, that premise is absolutely false. Although I was raised in the Christian church and believed wholeheartedly in God, Jesus, and the Bible, as a child, I came to "seriously question" my faith when I reached my teen years. I checked out different churches, different religions, and settled for a time on no religion, no faith, no beliefs based on anything I couldn't see, touch, smell, hear, taste. Then one day in the late sixties I had a life-changing experience, thanks to a hippie Christian neighbor who was walking with God. I silently had prayed one of those desperate "If you really exist, God, I need help!" prayers and within a few minutes, this hippie Christian person knocked on my door and said, "God sent me because He says you need help." Question? Oh heck yeah. I questioned. I searched. I demanded proof. I doubted. I denied the very existence of God. I'll forever be grateful for God's mercy and grace to me, a rebellious, doubting little brat of a sinner, at the height of my refusal to believe in Him. So to those who yammer on and on about how faith is for the weak of mind and the easily fooled brainwashed among us (and I'm not saying that's you, Roy), I say :P and

Well said, WW. I'm well aware that God could squash me like a bug for any of my lapses into less than perfect behavior. I am unspeakably grateful for his mercy and grace and for the sacrifice He made for all mankind. Since I am human and will undoubtedly screw up again, I'm also thankful for chances to improve my behavior.

I agree, Twinky. I am in awe of God. I love God. I have reverence for God. I worship God. Although I recognize His power and authority, I don't fear Him in the sense of being terrified of Him. What about Romans 2:4 (the goodness [often translated "kindness"] of God leadeth thee to repentance)? I don't need to be afraid of God to be obedient to Him, as best I understand His will. I won't argue doctrine; just putting in my two cents.

From Opera Buff, in the "Sexual predators in TWI" thread: Someday, maybe TWI will wake up and realize the criticisms being leveled against them are God's own truth.

Make that a Belleek porcelain drool cup, to match the teacup she always used at her desk. Nothing but the best!

Kit said: I can't either. Those "celebrations" held outside prisons when someone is executed disgust me. It confounds me how anyone could even think of participating in something like that. Nevertheless, although I won't be jumping up and down with joy if the guy I mentioned earlier gets the death penalty and it is carried out, I can't say I'll shed a tear. I'm nore inclined to shed tears for the women he raped and killed and dismembered. I can't say I'll be sorry he's gone because his absence from this earth means he can never rape, kill, or decapitate another victim. Regarding "vengeance is mine," whatever happens in eternity to murderers and child rapists and those who commit horrible crimes against others is between them and God Almighty. In this life, I think they should suffer the consequences of their heinous actions.

I think you have to look at this on a case-by-case basis. There's a trial going on in my city right now involving a man who is accused of killing at least 11 women. Several bodies (one decapitated) were found in his house or buried in his yard. He lived alone. Numerous witnesses have testified that he lured them into his house with the promise of drugs then tried to or succeeded in raping them, but they managed to get away. One such witness, who came to this man's house to score some of the promised drugs, said as she was escaping from the house, she passed a room draped in plastic, and behind the plastic was a headless body. Now, if that wouldn't scare a person straight, I don't know what would! She was sobbing on the witness stand as she gave her testimony. Who could blame her? So my point (if I ever get to it) is, why on earth would we want to keep this man alive and pay for his upkeep for another 20 or 30 years (he's 51 now)? The guy is clearly a serial killer. He's not going to be rehabilitated in prison. I say give him the shot and be done with him. This life isn't all there is. Let him make his peace with God, fall on his knees and beg God's forgiveness, but in this life, he has man's judgment coming, and I think the price that judgment carries should be death. On the other hand, if the evidence in a case isn't so crystal clear as it is in this one, then I say the system should err on the side of mercy/caution rather than risk putting an innocent person to death.

Joke heard on the radio today: "I called LeBron James to congratulate him for being on the 2nd-place team in the NBA finals, but he didn't answer. I guess his cell phone doesn't have a ring, either. :D

After hearing his statement to the press, it's pretty obvious that humiliation doesn't necessarily lead to humility. I'm embarrassed for him.

Despite my previous comment, try as I might I can't sustain a vindictive attitude toward LeBron forever. I hated the way he left, but I can't help feeling a little sorry for him. He thought with that move to Miami he was joining a dream team and paving the way to a championship. I remember what a young kid he was when his NBA career started, and how concerned I was that all the attention and adulation might go to his head. It did. I think he's just had his come-uppance. On one level it's hard to watch someone so full of talent fail in the end. On the other hand, maybe he'll come back down to earth and the humility will do him some good in the long run.

Dabobbada, great to see you here, and thanks for the info! Twinky, I did read the whole thread, but I didn't go back and reread the posts that are almost 3 years old. I'd forgotten that you had posted about the fish hook explanation. All I was saying is that I was at HQ for 3 years before VP died and 1 year after, and I never heard about the fish hook story and never saw any evidence of its having happened. It sounds to me like Reynolds made up the story (or was fed the story by LCM, RFR, or someone) to cover up for VPW's cancer. Lord knows there were plenty of people at the top who were capable of and perfectly willing to lie lest twi's reputation suffer in any way.

I was on staff for three years before VPW's death and one year after. I never heard any story about a fish hook in his eye. I never saw him walking around with a patch over his eye, either, until it was removed and replaced with the glass eye. If he'd gotten a fish hook in his eye, there would have been a patch or a bandage. On several occasions I heard Mrs. W and others talk about how VPW's eyes had been burned during the filming. I never heard Howard Allen blamed for it though, Jerry.

Karma can be a bear, can't it LeBron?

Kit said: Amen, sister. I remember thinking so often, "What happened? Why isn't it like it once was?" But I knew the answer. The twi organization was more important to its leaders than God and God's people, and when I woke up and saw that, I knew it was time to go. Ego and lack of love are real buzz killers, aren't they?

Good, thought-provoking post, Kit. Thanks. Arrogance and selfishness were certainly plentiful in twi. However, people's arrogance and selfishness did not hinder God from delivering people who were seeking him, even in twi. God should get the thanks and the glory, for sure, but the fact remains that God's Word was spoken, people believed it, and people got delivered while associated with twi. I knew someone who kicked heroin overnight. A girl I helped as a WOW, a teenager, quit prowling the streets every night and believing every jerk who came her way and instead learned to have some respect for herself. Those are drops in the bucket. I saw many, many, many more. The point I'm making is that God is not limited by the flaws and sins of the people who speak for Him or claim to speak for Him. I feel that message gets lost too often in the haste to promote the everything-anti-twi message.

You also don't have to hate people to recognize that they can be a pain in the a$$. I don't know if VPW was right biblically about this particular point, but at least it's logical. For the record, I never left twi hating or being suspicious of people outside twi, and I didn't hate them when I was in. We have to be careful to speak only for ourselves, eh, since all our experiences and attitudes weren't the same? I had heard elsewhere that Paul's thorn was his sexual problems. It seems to me that if that was it, more would have been written in the Bible about it. It doesn't escape me, though, why VPW would want to dismiss that explanation so readily. At the time, I thought he was sticking up for Paul. Ha!

Twinky, along the lines of a cleaning business, keep in mind that vacant houses/apartments/flats are much easier/faster to clean than furnished, occupied ones. When I was a WOW, I started a cleaning business halfway through the year. I contacted all the real estate companies in town and let them know I would clean houses to get them ready to sell after the previous owners had moved, apartments or business offices that had been vacated, etc. I also did cleaning in people's homes, but I set myself apart by being willing to do heavier cleaning: walls, windows, swimming pool/patio areas, organizing closets, etc.--and making that known to all potential clients. The humdrum vacuuming-and-dusting type of cleaning bored me to tears, so I was always looking for something different to do. The great thing is that if you do a good job, word spreads quickly.

WG, I understand your hostility toward the place, but before it was owned by twi, it had about 65 years of existence and holds a rather unique place in the local history of the area.

"Oops," Camping says. "Did I say May?" (slaps forehead) "I meant October 21st!"

I wish someone would do it, too. Alas, I don't live in Indiana and have no pull there, but I think it would be a great way to save some of the buildings and provide a point of interest. Gene Stratton-Porter's home is nearby, so it could be another tourist stop.

George, you're probably right, but I hate to see old buildings neglected and then lost. I think the place is probably of more historical than architectural significance. The property had its highlights, though. The ceiling of the main barn was spectacular. It looked like the inside of the bottom of a huge, wooden ship. The stained-glass windows in the chapel were really beautiful. It was just a cool place...designed for complete self-sufficiency, with the dorms (former convent rooms), chapel, the barns and outbuildings, the auto shop, the laundry room, the canning room, the moats and springs on the property, the orchards. Then there were the tunnels and passageways and the huge attic (bats included), and the pastures and the woods. If they could save some of the buildings, it would be a great place for a museum. With 197 acres, they could re-create a whole 19th-century midwestern village there. Sorta the Williamsburg of Indiana!

Here's another link: http://www.indianalandmarks.org/NewsPhotos/10most/Pages/SylvanSprings.aspx I hope they can save it. I really enjoyed living there and would hate to see a place with such an interesting history get bulldozed and turned into a shopping mall or something.

Hiya Ted, old friend! Love ya! Ted said: As someone who had the pleasure of seeing Ted in action doing his lounge routine, I have to say, it was marvelous. And as he says, it covered everything from rock to Sinatra, and many other genres in between. He's one talented man. And I wasn't the only one in attendance who thought so. His act was very well received and followed by many. There was a wealth of talent in twi. As the years went on it got squelched and micromanaged more and more, but the talent was definitely there.