Linda Z

I agree, Groucho. Of course most of the people making personal attacks think they aren't, that it's those other people attacking them. One thing that might help is if some people would take a few minutes to actually think before posting, and try to be sure they understand the other person's point before reacting in anger or hurt. Some GSers are very clear in what they say, and others are sometimes hard to understand. I see people in the latter category getting jumped on unfairly sometimes. This seems like all too typical an exchange around here: GSer 1. "I disagree. That wasn't what I experienced." GSer 2: "There you go, calling me a liar!" GSer1: "I didn't say you lied, I'm saying that wasn't my experience." GSer2: "Why are you so cruel? Why do you have to call people liars?!?" GSer1 (now pi$$ed): "I didn't call you a liar, but you need to get back on your meds!" GSer1 and 2 both have fallen victim to letting their anger get the best of them, and the conversation screeches to a halt. There are many "pairs" of posters who are constantly at each other. If I'm reading a thread and see those pairs of names, I often scroll right past. It will be the same, shrill accuations thrown back and forth that I've read hundreds of times before, so why bother? But back to Groucho's point: Frankly, I think there's about as much chance for civil discourse about some of the hotter topics on GS as there is for world peace, but I'd love to be proven wrong!

You probably did, but just didn't realize it. There were staff working all over the place, both on the ROA grounds and in the offices and on the stages and in the woods. I worked my full-time job in addition to whatever work assignment I had for the ROA, as did most staff except for women with small kids and those who figured out how to worm out of it.

My old next-door neighbors had a sweet three-legged border collie named Tripod.

Bramble, even at HQ, the only way I knew VPW was sick was through someone who worked closely with him. I don't recall any announcements being made to the whole staff before he died. It was strange (not Tom Strange!)

During the 4 years I was on staff at HQ, the prayer requests that were mailed in or phoned in went into books in the prayer room. Corps and staff members went in there frequently to pray for the requests. TWI was/is a lot of bad things, but I think we best serve the purposes of GS and the people who come here for help/answers by sticking to the facts. As for the believers on the field not being "good enough" to pray for VP before he died, hence no SIT alerts....when he was in his terminal illness, he specifically requested that no 24 hours of prayer be held. We were not even asked to pray for him at HQ. Any prayer requests upon his death were for TWI after the loss of VP, not for VP after he died (!).

Happy New Year, everyone! TempleLady, great to see your smiling face...you look wonderful. Keep up the good work.

So sorry to hear the sad news. I'm praying for all the !s

Exsie has every right to express her concerns about GS. It's Paw's site, to be sure, but a lot of us have a lot of time and heart invested here, as well. And she's certainly in that category! Anyone who thinks otherwise reminds me of those folks who shout "America, love it or leave it" to anyone who questions the government's actions. Shell, I'm sorry, but your response sounded like a diplomatic way of saying, "Well, don't let the door hit you in the azz if you don't like it." I like you Shellon, and I respect you, but if that's what you meant, doesn't that seem a little harsh? Maybe you thought what she said was some sort of criticism of Paw and GS. I didn't take it that way at all. I saw it as her expressing her concern about how this online community functions, because of the people who hang out here, not because of the way it's run from "the top." It seemed more like a call for discussion about how we might do better than a complaint. Let me see. In twi, the heroic thing to do was to speak up. But here on GS, if we see something that concerns us, speaking up is a bad thing? Come on. So anyway... People do leave. Some leave hurt, some leave disgusted, and some just lose interest. Of those who leave hurt, there are many who perhaps should have read a few posts before jumping in with both feet and invoking the wrath of the majority. Some who fit that profile have thick enough skin to stick around and take the heat. They either modify their views, change their views drastically, or stand by them, public opinion be damned. Some who get jumped on for their unpopular views don't have thick skin and just leave hurt or po'd, maybe adding to the view outside GS that this is just a site full of bullying, negative people. Yes, this is a place for telling the "other side of the story." I think anyone who's been here 5 minutes should be able to get that. But it's a lot more. And sometimes when people try to tell a middle-of-the-road story or a less than totally anti-TWI story, they get shouted down and ridiculed. There's a core of people in this community who are very quick to pounce. A similar thing happens if someone is extolling the virtues of oxygenated water or pointing out the admirable qualities of some politician, or talking about a book or movie they like, only maybe the reaction is slightly less passionate. I think Rhino touched on it. "Herd mentality" is a natural part of life, and it's alive and well on GS. Not because of Paw or the moderators, but because we're all people here. And those who make up this particular group sorta have a background of joining a herd, now, don't we? :o

Sudo, can you post the link to that video, so I can forward it to my coworkers who travel all the time? I wanted to do it before it was taken down off the other site. I don't really want to direct my friends at work to GS. Thanks.

I'm sorry, but can you document that? That's your firsthand knowledge, you say? Well, I'm sorry, but you'll have to show proof.

That's wild, butnowIsee. I'll bet not many people have seen those! Rhino, no trains in tunnels...sorry to disappoint. :lol: However, some of the meteors clustered into what looked like white fireworks. It was really cool. I love meteor showers, but at this time of year, watching them from under the nice, warm covers was a bonus!

How cool, ButNowISee. I never knew you could see them in daylight. What did it look like? Rhino, I skimmed GS last night before going to bed, and I must have made a mental note of this thread's title, because sometime during the night I had a lovely, vivid dream of meteor showers that seemed to go on for quite some time. So thanks for the thread! I got to "see" them without standing outside in the snow and sleet and rain and slush!

The whole issue of personal prophecy gives me flashbacks. I was involved with a charismatic group in California in the late 1960s that was heavily into this counterfeit, and I saw how much damage it did in people's lives. I received many prophecies and gave many (may God forgive me; I was spiritually very naive). The only ones that edified anyone were those that didn't involve specific guidance for the recipient but were more like those one would hear in twi...words of encouragement. I found an interesting thread on the apparently now-defunct CES Dialogue board. The posts are from the year 2000, back when there was still diaglogue allowed on their Web site, and people were expressing their concerns about pp way back then. Here's the link: http://ex-ces.faithweb.com/Personal%20Prop...%202%20532.html I may buy the book by John Bevere, Thus Saith the Lord, which someone in that thread recommends. I'm curious as to when, in modern times, this dangerous movement started and how it spread. It is my firm belief that the CES proponents of this crap have been deceived into thinking they can snap their fingers and demand God to spew forth prophecies whenever they (the deceived ones) want them. That is soooooooo contrary to anything I understand from the Bible. When Karen Ann got engaged to Mark, the joke among the Corps who knew them was that perhaps marriage would fulfill some need in her that wasn't being met, so she would quit talking incessantly. Apparently she's still pretty vocal! I guess it didn't work. :(

Excellent posts, Socksness, excellent. Bless you for making yourself available to share with us in this thread.

Belle, the only scene where I could find myself when the movie came out on video was the one where the women in the movie theater are throwing gravy boats at the emcee on the stage. When I was at the agency where we signed up to be extras, one of the real actors said, "And if they ask if you can do such and such, say yes, or you'll end up sitting around all day." So when they said, "Can you throw?" I said, "hell yeah!" That's how I ended up getting to be in that scene. I was in some others--in the crowd walking from the street into the movie theater and in others sitting inside the theater. I was sitting directly behind Mary Steenbergen in one scene as they were filming it, but that scene didn't make the final cut. No one would be able to spot me in a million years--too far away. I only could because I knew where I was sitting and what I was wearing. Just as well. The 1940s garb I was wearing was none too flattering! If you find the video or a DVD, let me know if you enjoy it. Back on topic: I used to love It's a Wonderful Life and watched it over and over. Then one time the scene where Jimmy Stewart is holding his little girl on the stairs and screaming and freaking out really made me sad. From then on I didn't like watching it anymore. I never saw the version of A Christmas Carol starring the Fonz. I'll have to keep an eye out for it, but I'll always like the old black and white versions best.

Belle,this past weekend they just had a big shindig at the house where A Christmas Story was filmed (here in Cleveland). Several of the actors were there, and they were doing tours and dinners and all sorts of activities. Some guy (I think he was from California) came here a few years ago and bought the house and made it into a museum of sorts. He also manufactures and sells the leg lamp that figured so prominently in the movie. Here's my teeny tiny claim to almost-fame: I was an extra in the sequel to the movie, called My Summer Story. It was a blast! The sequel didn't get as much attention, but I think it's hilarious. Mary Steenbergen played the mom in the sequel, and she was really really nice to everyone and seemed so serene and kind. I think Charles Grodin plays the dad in the summer version (not positive--haven't watched it in years). He wasn't in any of the scenes I was, so I never saw him until the movie came out. I think my favorite Christmas movie is A Christmas Carol--especially the really old versions with the hokey special effects. I also still like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and the Grinch Who Stole Christmas. Then there's Holiday Inn and White Christmas. Oddly enough, I'm kinda sick of It's a Wonderful Life, even though I love Frank Capra's films, and Miracle on 34th Street, too. I guess I've finally reached saturation with those!

Socks, I don't know. That link you gave says it's THE Prophecy Club. Is there only one. Or are they just THE one, as in the best one? Is the club to beat people over the head? Or are there many prophecy clubs, like baseball clubs? There's the American League of Prophets and the National League Prophets, and in one of them the head prophet (aka the pitcher) has to take his or her turn at bat and in the other one he or she doesn't? This is very confusing. I'm so creeped out by the whole "personal prophecy" movement. I feel like shouting, "If God ALMIGHTY decides to give you prophecy, you'll get it, damn it, and if He doesn't, you're JUST MAKING IT UP! C'mon, people!" Rhino & Tom: I'm off-duty in my role as grammar police. I just do that from 8-4:30 or so. And MStar, your bug reminds me of that horrible Orkin (or that other big exterminator company) commercial a few years ago that made it look like there was a humongous cockroach walking on the inside of your TV screen. *shuddering* I couldn't stand that!!! Exsie, the momentus connection would make sense.

Thanks for that insight, DWBH. I'm so sorry and heartsick that SR had to endure such a nightmare. I thought she was already safely out of the picture before Michael donned the robes and the pillbox hat and went on the road with his act. A 10-foot pole isn't long enough for me to distance myself from anyone who claims to be able to prophesy the future at their own whim. How arrogant is that? If I understand correctly, the board that is arbitrating this mess is made up of members of some "Prophecy Club." My God. That so trivializes any true voice from God that I can't find the words to say what I'm thinking. I must admit that the stinker in me has derived some amusement over the past few years about Michael's wild claims of impending thermonuclear war and such, but then it's quite sobering to realize that people actually swallow this BS--apparently my friend included. Sad, sad, sad. Talk about out of the frying pan into the fire. Besides the greed and mishandling of their followers' donations, many of these groups lay claim to all sorts of prophetic ability. Before my twi days, I got hooked up with a group of well-meaning hippie Christians in the late 60s who also believed "God told them" what to do regarding every minute decision in their lives. Occasionally I saw glimmers of what I believe was genuine revelation with miraculous outcomes, but 90% of the stuff spewed forth was just that...stuff, and it left people confused and screwed up. Spiders crawling out of people's noses, indeed. What in the flip is wrong with these people? So here we go again with the pseudo-prophecy. By the way, Michael claims God told him to go to Michigan, where he could set up a recording/TV studio in some guy's warehouse for cheap, cheap, cheap. Of course he's begging for money to get through the current "emergency." I can only hope that all this division and turmoil in Rood's group cause people to stop and think--really think--where they're putting their money and, more importantly, their hearts. I think the root of all this crap is the overemphasis on Biblical "research" from twi. It was a damned head trip, as if one can know God by conjugating some flippiin' Greek verbs. Don't get me wrong. I think studying the Bible is great, but the emphasis was way out of balance. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that only a handful really have a calling to be the scholars, and the rest are called to love and help and comfort. And I believe there are true prophets today, but they don't have a "club" and they don't have to dress up in costumes, and they don't do it for filthy lucre. 'Scuze me while I look for some Alka Seltzer.

Here's a link to an analysis of what's been going on: http://www.areallyrudeawakening.com/ I've had no involvement with this or any other offshoots, but it would seem to be a familiar pattern in many ways. Mr. Rood, who has moved from Oregon to Michigan, alleged on his original Web site that Mr. Louis et al absconded with his database, containing all his contact info. His now-closed Web site points to the above link and to another Web site, if you're involved in this group and want to resend him your info. The words "bite and devour" come to mind, just as they did with the whole CES/STF/spider fiasco. I don't know who's biting whom, but I'm pretty sure someone's sporting some bite marks!

I described the two videos to a fellow-traveler at work (the TV station had taken them off their Web site), and she had the same thought I had: Neither of us has ever seen a tray of clean glasses on a housekeeping cart. Never, and we've both stayed in a lot of hotels for business travel. Sorta makes you go hmmmmm, doesn't it?

A beauty from T-Bone:

I have to come out of lurkdom for this one, because this topic is amusing. My former boss has the messiest office (one desk could never hold a fraction of the crap he accumulates) I've ever seen. He could win the messiest desk contest hands down. Once I was trying to get a book from a top shelf of his bookshelf and a pile of books came crashing down on my head. The company president happened by as I was digging myself out, and I commented that I'd love to get in there and clean out that bookcase. My boss was out of town at the time. The prez said, "I dare ya." So I did. It was so full that it took me all day to sort the trash from the duplicate stuff from the good stuff. I found (in no particular order, and this is just a representative list): Boss's diploma from Yale (this was in 1997, and he graduated in 1963) A magazine from the library that was several years overdue Boss's children's early grade school drawings (by this time two children were grown and married and the third was in college) Duplicate, triplicate, quadruplicate copies of books Several 3-foot-high stacks of old press releases (roughly 5 years old) on the bottom shelf This is just a sampling from one bookcase, mind you. He has a huge office and one of those mammoth desks. You can't see an inch of the surface. The piles of paper are each at least 2 feet high. When we moved to our new offices, they made the mistake of putting shelves on his walls. Those are stacked with papers, too. I still work with this man, although he isn't my boss anymore. When a CD or some photos or a manuscript or something is missing, nothing gets a reaction of rolled eyes faster than, "Did you check Richard's office?" No one wants to go in there. It's like the Bermuda Triange of offices. My desk occasionally gets cluttered, because I have tons of incoming manuscripts to deal with every week, but I can only take so much messiness and then I have to stop and clear it all up. I can't think straight if it gets out of hand. I wish I could keep my house as tidy as I keep my office at work!

Thanks, w&w!

Glad you guys who have responded are okay! Still praying for everyone out there. wrdsandwrks, I have a good friend who lives in Valencia. Isn't that right next to Stevenson Ranch? I tried to call her but got voice mail and no response yet. Were a lot of people in Valencia evacuated?

Abi, congrats and hooray. I know how relieved you must feel. Great to see ya here!