Linda Z

Our family tradition is to get together on Christmas eve for an informal dinner and then play games. This year it was "Catch Phrase," which is sort of like "$10,000 Pyramid" on speed. It's especially entertaining with my 89-year-old dad and 83-year-old mom playing. Mom can't hear when people call out the answers, and Dad makes up his own rules as he goes along, cracking wise all the way. They're both cute as bugs, and I'm so thankful to have them still with us and still enjoying life. Many laughs are shared, and then we all go to our respective homes and await Santa's arrival Christmas morning, which is when the gift unwrapping extravaganza begins. Merry Christmas, everyone! May you enjoy whatever your traditions are in good health and happiness. It's almost time for me to go over the river and through the woods back to Grandmother's house.

That's an important point. I recently read that anyone can call him/herself a therapist, even a psychotherapist. Only those with the proper education can be licensed, and if that "therapist" isn't licensed, I don't know if there's anything that can be done.

Sounds like you have a bad case of burnout, Brother Paw. Can't say that I blame you for that one bit. We can be an unruly bunch sometimes, and God knows lots of people have a better idea for how they think GSC should be run, no matter how much this site has helped them. I hope you'll reconsider, but you have to do what's best for you.

Please show me where I said that of anyone but myself. I can save you the trouble. I didn't. I also said speaking up is good and that one can forive and still speak up. No, I'm not psychic, and I'm not interested in a pi$$ing match. I read as far as I've quoted here and then I stopped. I try to be very reasonable and considerate of others' viewpoints when I post here, especially in "About the Way." To have my words twisted and thrown back at me doesn't put me in the Christmas mood, so I'm done. Have a merry Christmas. Forgive or don't. 'Tis your choice. I only tried to share what's worked for me. Nowhere did I accuse anyone of anything or tell them what to do. If you want to interpret my words that way, have at it. I'm done.

Jesus told us to forgive. What he said and did to the Pharisees, he said and did as the Son of God, with a capital S. I see nowhere in the Bible that he said to his disciples, "Seek revenge." Or "Hate your enemies." And in fact, I don't think he hated the Pharisees when he confronted them. I think he stood up to them on behalf of the people who followed him, because they were taking advantage of God's people. That's what we do when we speak up against the wrong done by twi "leaders." We can forgive and still speak up and stick up for each other. I totally agree with leafy, who said: Forgiving is not condoning. It is not reconciling, although it can lead to reconciliation. It is also not some milque-toast wishiy-washy thing. As cman said (and said very well), it is a powerful thing. I did my time being unhappy and pi$$ed off and bitter about what twi "leaders" did to me. Then I saw past my bitterness and my hurt and realized I couldn't change them, that I could only change me. As long as I held onto those things, I was letting them continue to have power over me. When I decided to forgive and liet it go, it was like taking a sack of boulders off my back. It gave me a huge sense of freedom and empowerment.

Merry Christmas to you, too, Roy. And may 2009 be a year of health and happiness for you!

Wow, Kimberly, that sounds like a workout! I don't think I'll attempt anything like that until after I retire, but that's impressive. Geisha, I was at a local craft store a couple days ago to get more chocolate to make another batch ot RainbowGirls Peppermint Bark. I noticed they had 5 lbs of Wilton rolled fondant for $9.97. The store was Pat Cattan's...don't know if it's a national chain or just local. I don't know if that's more or less than what you pay when you order it on the Internet, but I thought of you and thought I'd mention it. I'm off work until Christmas, so I'm going to make a big batch of now i see's sugar cookies. Can't wait to see how they turn out.

I feel I can only forgive people for what they've done to me. I'm plenty angry about what they've done to other people who were hurt far worse than I was by twi "leaders," and I do not equate my forgiveness for wrongs committed against me with letting anyone off the hook for anything, whether done to me or others. I have no right to forgive someone for what he or she did to anyone but me. And I don't feel I'm practicing moral relativity in the least. What is wrong is wrong. What is evil is evil. My forgiveness doesn't remove anyone's wrongness and evil one iota. I'm not that powerful, and it's not my job or my desire. It looks to me like doling out consequences is God's job, and last time I checked, God's name wasn't on my electric bill. Just because I feel forgiving wrongs done to me is what I need to do certainly doesn't mean I can't recognize evil and point it out. The two are not mutually exclusive in my mind, at all. Some of these men and women who used and abused God's people, if they're still alive, ought to be on their knees every day asking God's forgiveness. Maybe some of them are, but I suspect many haven't yet come to the realization that they did something wrong. If anyone wants to ask my forgiveness, that's nice, but I'm not waiting around for them to act rightly in order to get my heart where I think it belongs.

Potato said: I can only speak for myself, and I'm not telling anyone else that they have to forgive. That's each person's decision. For me, I processed the anger, bitterness, and hurt feelings for a while, and then I decided that was too much baggage to carry around and I didn't want it, so I decided to forgive what people in twi had done to me. I didn't decide to forgive out of guilt. I did it for me. I figure God is more than capable of any revenge that might be due anyone else. You're right, it's your choice, absolutely. And I don't feel any more righteous than anyone else for the choice I've made. It's simply what works for me.

Twinky, if you need to leave the kitties at home, this is what they'll be doing.

To me the subject of forgiveness is simple (note I didn't say easy). When I forgive someone, it releases me--from my anger and bitterness and hurt feelings. It doesn't release that person from God's judgment. That part is between the person and God. I hear a lot of people talking about not forgiving until someone asks for forgiveness. I refuse to give someone that much power over me. I don't want what I do with my heart and mind to depend on someone else's actions. I have the power to forgive or not. Waiting for an apology just holds my heart captive all that much longer.

Twinky, given the difficult history you've had with your cats and how much progress you've made, I wonder if you might want to reconsider taking them to your mom's. Cats, I'm told, are very "place oriented" and can freak out when taken out of their own homes. Unlike dogs, who always seem ready for a road trip, cats apparently don't like it so much. You've gained so much ground with your kitties, it would be a shame to have them revert to their scaredy-catness. Of course, if you have no alternative but to take them along, then I'm sure they'll do okay. This is just some animal wisdom I got from a friend who's a frequent cat and dog rescuer. Is there anyone who could feed your cats for you while you're gone and look in on them every day or two? When I travel, I leave my cat extra food in her self-feeder dish, make sure she has plenty of water and a clean litter box, and just have my sister check on her every couple of days. BTW, I read your tale of the thread-swallowing cat with my heart in my mouth. I've seen x-rays of cats with a needle in their tummies, and they always had to have emergency surgery, lest the needle pierce their intestines. I'm so glad your kitty's adventure had a happy ending!!

Notta said: Pres Pub should have been grateful for that. In Way Pub, we used to have to edit the stuff he actually wrote himself. It wasn't easy, and his sec'y, bless her heart, guarded his words like a pitbull, whether they made any sense or not. She'd present these convoluted arguments about what he meant, and we'd say, "It doesn't matter what he means if no one can figure out what the heck he means." LOL now...then, not so much.

HAP, I can't answer your question, being pretty much a computer idiot myself, but when I read your post a thought occurred to me. Could you check the program's settings to see if there's an auto-save feature tucked away somewhere? There may not be one, but in word processing programs, like MS Word, you can set it to autosave every few minutes and it's invisible and doesn't affect anything you're doing. Just a crazy thought, until you get the real answer.

RG, I made your peppermint bark for a get-together at work yesterday, and it was a huge hit! Everyone loved it and asked me for the recipe. Thanks for sharing it. It was so easy!

What a great photo and great gift! Wow, the kids! have grown, too!

Thanks for answering, John. My responses to you are in blue, below.

Hi again, John: I'm puzzled as to why you haven't answered my question about deprogramming/exit counseling. In asking that question, I was not trying to start an argument with you. I simply wanted to know where you stand on that issue. And more importantly, I think it's only fair that others here have the opportunity to know the answer, since you're promoting your counseling business on GSC. It's your right to ignore me, but it doesn't raise your credibility level, IMO, when you ignore a question that is so pertinent to the type of services you're offering.

Yes, Lifted, you were the one I was referring to, but I didn't want to name you, in case you'd rather not engage in this discussion. And yes, I really am interested in what John thinks about what I asked him. That's why I asked. I would like to know what his position on deprogramming/exit counselling is. It's not an accusation, just a question. If he and I disagree, that won't mean I think he's a bad person. It will just mean we disagree. :)

Dearest My~: I don't usually do b'days around here because I'm afraid I'll miss some and hit others and thus hurt somebody's feelings. For you, I'll make an exception today. Have a Marguerita on me, belatedly. Picture me clinking my glass to yours across the miles. Love, Zee

Interesting, Socks. I'm no musician, but the melody sure sounds identical to me. The opening rhythm is different on the Coldplay song, but once that fades and the melody comes on, it sure seems like a carbon copy. When it comes to plagiarism, I wonder how much of it is unintentional, especially as it pertains to musical compositions. I've often thought you could hear some music without giving it much thought and then later come up with a tune you think is your own, but it really arose from the subconscious memory somewhere. Nevertheless, Judge Linda says, "Give the money to the guitarist. You Coldplay guys have plenty to spare, it would seem."

WD, it's the principle behind the stamp thing. Even when I was a good little gung-ho Twig leader I found it annoying that I was sending in 100s of dollars to HQ, yet we were told (very clearly, I might add) that God forbid we should take a quarter for a money order and whatever a stamp cost back then out of the ABS. It didn't break me. I didn't go without food over it. It just irked me. Just like saying ABS couldn't be used for ANYTHING except putting in an envelope with that damned blue form (oh, how I hated filling that out every week) and sending it off to Box 328. One of the greatest things about leaving twi was the freedom to give where and when and to whom I wanted. Toward the end of my twi time, until I walked away altogether, I stopped sending my Twig's money to HQ and encouraged people to give where they wanted. I told them if they wanted to keep supporting what was going on at twi they could send their money there themselves. After that, giving became fun, not a religious ritual that would keep God spitting on me...so to speak.

Hi John: Socks is right. You might even get an argument around here if you were handing out $100 bills. If you walked through the doors of the GSC announcing that the sky was blue, someone would challenge, "How do you know that?" Someone else might say, "It is not. I was just outside and the sky was grey." Others would take your side and the battle would ensue. :) Questioning is a good thing as long as it doesn't become badgering, but I don't think it's reached that level in this thread. After all, it was not questioning that got some of us in trouble, wasn't it? So you'll just have to bear with us when we ask what's on our minds. I've been wondering a couple things. Did you leave TM of your own volition, or did someone do an intervention or deprogram you or "exit counsel" you or whatever it's called these days? Do you feel such interventions are beneficial and healthy? I'll be fair and tell you up front that I don't think those methods are healthy or based on good, solid, scientific evidence. I know there's at least one GSC member who was deprogrammed who would agree. I think counselling provided after someone has made up his or her mind to leave a controlling religious group can be a wonderful thing. I'm very much not convinced, though, that people should be dragged out against their will (of course I'm talking adults here). I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Kimberly, I think the year Elvis died, the ROA was held at the Sidney fairgrounds. I remember my son going across the street to the little mom and pop store for something and running back to tell us the news.

Ah, the Skapuras...salt-of-the-earth people. Those are the ones I wonder about...good souls who just stick around after it's become so obvious there's nothing to stick around for. Ok...back to finances. WD just sent me down Memory Lane for a minute.