waysider

It's not addressed to me but I will respond by saying I really don't care who you are, what your background is, how you think or what you do or don't know. I am curious, though, why you continue to believe in a concept that has no scriptural basis while professing yourself to be an "expert" on all things biblical..

"Dispensationalism developed as a system from the teachings of John Nelson Darby (1800–82) who strongly influenced thePlymouth Brethren of the 1830s in Ireland and England. The original concept came when Darby considered the implications of Isaiah 32 for Israel. He saw that prophecy required a future fulfillment and realization of Israel's kingdom. The New Testament church was seen as a separate program not related to that kingdom. Thus arose a prophetic earthly kingdom program for Israel and a separate "Mystery" heavenly program for the church. In order to not conflate the two programs, the prophetic program had to be put on hold to allow for the church to come into existence. Then it is necessary for the church to be raptured away before prophecy can resume its earthly program for Israel." SOURCE

That defines my experience with The Way. I started out as an active learner, what people used to call a "seeker". It didn't take long, though, before Way protocol turned me into a passive recipient.Some people are perfectly content to be passive recipients. I only know I wasn't one of them.

And there you have it. "Oh, but (insert splinter name) is right on."

I wanted to pull some important points out of this to highlight but it's so packed with good advise, I found that to be an impossible task.

Whatever phrase you use to describe it, I think the general idea here is "going to heaven" at some point after you die. Is that too simplistic?

MS means manuscript. MSS is the plural.

Most modern scholars believe the first gospel written was Mark and that it was written in about 70 CE. Paul's death is placed at 64 CE. Obviously, he would have written the epistles before the date of his death.

I suppose I should have said the chronology of the writings. As WordWolf noted earlier in the thread, the epistles were written before the gospels.

By reversing the chronology, it puts more weight on the words of Paul than the words of Jesus, which was probably the intent of those establishing the sequencing of the canon.

I don't think that is really off topic. It illustrates that individual experiences were varied. Everyone's experience is uniquely their own.

It happened in the mid 1970's, in the middle of the night. Our program was in the the middle of rural Ohio. Just packing up and leaving on a moment's notice would have been very difficult for most. We were told the program had been cancelled because our "believing" was corrupted and inadequate. No specifics were given. A few hours later we were told we would be allowed to continue, contingent on our following orders without question. I later found out that the same stunt was being played out, at the same time, in the Way Corps. It was all staged to push people into pledging loyalty. For some people it was quite a traumatic experience. edit: Here's the thing about these kind of incidents.Some people can walk away unscathed while others are deeply scarred emotionally. There was no follow up for those who were deeply affected. In fact, those who were deeply affected were made to feel it was their own fault they were hurt. Like a spouse who is led to believe it's somehow their own fault they were the victim of abuse. It's bass-ackwards.

Yes. In PFAL, Wierwille said "speaking in tongues is proof you're going to heaven and all hell can't stop you.". This was a major selling point, used to convince you that taking the class was a wise choice.

OK So my take so far is that being able to say "Lo shanta la maka see tay" might not mean what we used to think it meant.

A real bad hangover?

Actually, it did, by way if implication. VPW led the students into drawing an unspoken conclusion and then said, "I didn't say it, you did.". It's a backhanded way of making a statement... the "nudge, nudge- wink, wink" approach. This tied in nicely with the appeal of speaking in tongues. "It's proof in the senses realm, etc."

I started a new thread titled "Can salvation be lost? in the doctrinal forum to address this matter. It seems to me, that might be a better place to continue the discussion. Also, feel free to re-title the thread if you feel it's not correctly phrased.

Fasten your seat belts.

Declaration seems like too kind a word. HERE

I'm gonna open up a big old can of worms here. In PFAL, VPW taught that "speaking in tongues is the external manifestation of the internal reality, etc., etc., etc." Soooooo...shouldn't one (theoretically) be able to ascertain their internal status by simply speaking in tongues? Unless.......... .

Reminds me of the time someone got kicked out of FellowLaborers in the middle of the night and commanded to clear the Ohio border by sunrise. Who did these people think they were? ...Don't answer that.