waysider

Yeah. I'm not saying original, initial revelation in a Biblical context, I'm saying primary revelation, as it related to this particular discussion and the works of Wierwille and the people he copied..

Here's where the logic falls apart, at least for me. According to Mike, Wierwille got revelation to assemble things that had already been given by revelation. I'll call this revelation that had already been given the primary revelation and Wierwille's the secondary revelation. We've already demonstrated that the primary revelation contained errors. Why would secondary revelation be given to use something (the primary revelation) that is known to contain errors? That seems awfully counterproductive, in my opinion.

That's exactly what Mike is arguing.

The snowstorm never happened. That's a fact. Despite what you might think, Mike, Ohio has weather records that are quite comprehensive, dating all the way back to the late 1800's. We've been through this all before and looked at specific dates for Ohio weather records.

Yes, this appears to be a crucial difficulty with drawing a parallel here.

Totally irrelevant and distracting from the discussion.

Ahhhh. The Pure Evil Model. Yes, indeed. The straw man to rival all other straw men. You see, Mike, it's not the purpose of this site to create a "pure evil model" of Wierwille. The purpose of this site is to expose what was and is the reality of the inner workings of The Way ministry. That reality is not always pretty. So, continue on to argue on VPW's behalf if you must, but be aware that this site is about much more than you or me or V.P. Wierwille.

You said it, not me...

....and yet you said this just 10 minutes earlier.

You don't think VP was completely at the reins in 1967?

I'll give this a bit of a twist... Dating someone to get them to take PFAL.

We had a discussion a while ago, about how ex-TWI people seem to be inordinately attracted to unusual theories. I can't seem to find it at the moment.

I dunno, I thought it was rather applicable to the topic at hand.

Consider for a moment the incredibly massive number of individuals that would need to be sworn to secrecy to pull off a conspiracy of this magnitude.

I agree. This is especially true in our current geopolitical climate, where several generations have been conditioned to believe that this or that ethnicity is evil or inferior. These beliefs, if given enough time, do seem to become diluted in the general populace. I think the same will hold true of this trinity issue. Perhaps in another 100 years people will scratch their heads and wonder why people were so consumed with something that doesn't seem to matter to them anymore. edit: As I was typing this, I was thinking specifically about the issue of Korea's "comfort women" and how subsequent generations following WWII have adjusted their beliefs and attitudes as time itself dilutes the first hand and second hand memories.

The Holy Trinity 1. Treat people the way you would like them to treat you. 2. Help those in need when it's possible to do so. 3. Have fun while you can, 'cause fate's an awful thing.

So much for "reaching up into Daddy's cookie jar".

I see you point but I don't think terrorists are driven by irony. I think they simply seize on opportunity as it presents itself. OK... Back To discussing Billy Graham

"Graham was also close to Richard Nixon — so close that Graham took it upon himself to draft a secret 13-page plan to bomb North Vietnam. In his book “The Golden Age Is In Us: Journeys and Encounters,” Alexander Cockburn cites a declassified 1969 memo Graham wrote after meeting with missionaries in Bangkok. Graham’s plan, he wrote to Nixon, “could overnight destroy the economy of North Vietnam.” Had Nixon followed through, that strike could have killed an estimated million people."

Proclaim = to say something. "These ideas are useful because I said so." +-+ -+

Fixed that for you.

Well, first of all, people DID get missed. Did you ever run a class? People got missed. I guarantee it. In addition, there are many modern denominations that have practiced speaking in tongues, many dating back to before Wierwille was even born. (see: Charles Fox Parham) Lastly, regarding penetration of the hippy culture: You actually have that backwards. There was a very large "Jesus Freak" movement afoot in the 1960's, before what became The Way as we came to know it. Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner were very successful at promoting their message to the hippy culture. Wierwille abducted their ministries to form The Way International. You can find that history in detail on these GSC forums

And who did the grads give it to? Still illegal. So now you're comparing yourself to Brother Andrew? I think we both agree, Brother Andrew broke some laws. The difference between you and I is that you think we can pick and choose which laws we decide to obey.

Despite what you may think, that doesn't make it legal. Every time you gave the class away for free, you deprived the organization of an income opportunity.