waysider

I had a pet rock that got more revelation than Wierwille. The man was a blowhard. Happy Fathers Day to all.

It's his own personal take on what the mark of the beast is. He offers no solid historical or scriptural basis for his opinion.

As far as I know (which is a short distance) there is nothing in the Bible stating we are in The Grace Administration. Sure, there are verses that could conceivably be privately interpreted as such, but nothing that actually states this.

We ran a mile every morning at 5:30, ate communal meals, followed a ridged schedule and were expected to follow the orders of leadership without questioning. One might say that it had military undertones, but there was no military training per se. Also, by the 980's, the program had been disbanded. I think the last group graduated in 1978 or 9.

"This is absolutely no different than how native tribes come up with folklore. Manually filling in the detail through imagination where only the sketch of an outline truly exists." "Jesus wept." ...I think we ought to take that verse and build a whole doctrine around it. We could create a youtube channel that dramatizes the doctrine with live actors. In the opening scene, we see Jesus attending a twig fellowship, having been witnessed to by a very attractive young female WOW Ambassador. In a later episode, and without warning, he discovers he's been the victim of the old *date & switch* routine. Then, an unseen Ron Howard, acting as the narrator, proclaims with a rueful voice... "Jesus Wept".

Inerrancy is only possible if you allow for a dispensational approach to the scriptures. Without it, there are contradictions. This is one of the big things that was stressed in the PFAL class. "They only seem like contradictions because you fail to recognize who they were addressed to, etc" (dispensations)

Dispensationalism is a rationalization. It's a way of explaining away the very real contradictions that exist in the scriptures. It's a way of deluding yourself into believing the scriptures are inerrant.

It's not addressed to me but I will respond by saying I really don't care who you are, what your background is, how you think or what you do or don't know. I am curious, though, why you continue to believe in a concept that has no scriptural basis while professing yourself to be an "expert" on all things biblical..

"Dispensationalism developed as a system from the teachings of John Nelson Darby (1800–82) who strongly influenced thePlymouth Brethren of the 1830s in Ireland and England. The original concept came when Darby considered the implications of Isaiah 32 for Israel. He saw that prophecy required a future fulfillment and realization of Israel's kingdom. The New Testament church was seen as a separate program not related to that kingdom. Thus arose a prophetic earthly kingdom program for Israel and a separate "Mystery" heavenly program for the church. In order to not conflate the two programs, the prophetic program had to be put on hold to allow for the church to come into existence. Then it is necessary for the church to be raptured away before prophecy can resume its earthly program for Israel." SOURCE

That defines my experience with The Way. I started out as an active learner, what people used to call a "seeker". It didn't take long, though, before Way protocol turned me into a passive recipient.Some people are perfectly content to be passive recipients. I only know I wasn't one of them.

And there you have it. "Oh, but (insert splinter name) is right on."

I wanted to pull some important points out of this to highlight but it's so packed with good advise, I found that to be an impossible task.

Whatever phrase you use to describe it, I think the general idea here is "going to heaven" at some point after you die. Is that too simplistic?

MS means manuscript. MSS is the plural.

Most modern scholars believe the first gospel written was Mark and that it was written in about 70 CE. Paul's death is placed at 64 CE. Obviously, he would have written the epistles before the date of his death.

I suppose I should have said the chronology of the writings. As WordWolf noted earlier in the thread, the epistles were written before the gospels.

By reversing the chronology, it puts more weight on the words of Paul than the words of Jesus, which was probably the intent of those establishing the sequencing of the canon.

I don't think that is really off topic. It illustrates that individual experiences were varied. Everyone's experience is uniquely their own.

It happened in the mid 1970's, in the middle of the night. Our program was in the the middle of rural Ohio. Just packing up and leaving on a moment's notice would have been very difficult for most. We were told the program had been cancelled because our "believing" was corrupted and inadequate. No specifics were given. A few hours later we were told we would be allowed to continue, contingent on our following orders without question. I later found out that the same stunt was being played out, at the same time, in the Way Corps. It was all staged to push people into pledging loyalty. For some people it was quite a traumatic experience. edit: Here's the thing about these kind of incidents.Some people can walk away unscathed while others are deeply scarred emotionally. There was no follow up for those who were deeply affected. In fact, those who were deeply affected were made to feel it was their own fault they were hurt. Like a spouse who is led to believe it's somehow their own fault they were the victim of abuse. It's bass-ackwards.

Yes. In PFAL, Wierwille said "speaking in tongues is proof you're going to heaven and all hell can't stop you.". This was a major selling point, used to convince you that taking the class was a wise choice.

OK So my take so far is that being able to say "Lo shanta la maka see tay" might not mean what we used to think it meant.

A real bad hangover?

Actually, it did, by way if implication. VPW led the students into drawing an unspoken conclusion and then said, "I didn't say it, you did.". It's a backhanded way of making a statement... the "nudge, nudge- wink, wink" approach. This tied in nicely with the appeal of speaking in tongues. "It's proof in the senses realm, etc."