waysider

I stumbled on the facebook page of a guy I knew in the early 1970s. He had a comment on there that went something like "If you have anything bad to say about Dr. Wierwille, stay off my page." Just like the commercial for the office supply store says, "That was easy!."

In all my time attending Way functions (1970s-1980s), I don't recall ever being specifically taught anything about Reformation. I'm sure it must have been referenced in passing, but that's about the extent of it. I was never in the WC, so maybe that's the reason.

I read the article. Maybe its' true and maybe it's not. My personal feeling, though, is that if this guy had any hard evidence to back his claims, he would have accidentally fallen down a flight of stairs and landed on some bullets a long, long time ago.

Only in his dreams. Wierwille was a 2 bit stumble bum.

Is that all there is?

It's like finding a pile of Bigfoot poop. Rare? Certainly. Possessing any intrinsic value? You be the judge.

"What makes you feel so good when your baby wears her evening gown? Must be the same thing that made a preacher lay his bible down.".....Muddy Waters

This is a baffling statement. Can you expound a bit more?

IDK. I think applause at the end is thankfulness...that it's finally over.

I used the law of believing, once, to levitate a table. Well, it was actually more like a patio umbrella but, boy howdy, that son of a gun lifted straight up in the air. If I remember correctly, it was a really hot and sticky August afternoon. I don't know about you, but I have trouble focusing when I'm uncomfortable. Then, just like that, a big storm came in with lots of rain and gusty wind. I instantly felt relief from the heat. I guess that made it easier to focus in and get the results I wanted/needed.

Well, I don't know where he got the idea for retemories. (I always thought that was Walter C's doing.) But I know it reminds me of a time in FellowLaborers that I looked in the mirror and suddenly wondered how I had changed into a seeming other person in such a short stretch of time. I had to convince myself it was in my best interest. It was a very surreal experience.

Yes, renouncing the "law of believing" is certainly a massive departure from Way theology.

Okay, here's what I don't get. And, I'm not trying to make trouble. You say you consider Mass to be one of the most serious forms of worship but you S.I.T. while the service is being held. To each his own. I guess. It just strikes me as being like the people who make a recipe they saw online and then comment on how much they really liked it but added coconut sprinkles and pineapple chunks to the mix. Well, it's not the same recipe, then, is it?

When you say "they", are you referring to the individuals or the organization?

I'm picturing a character from Loony Toons, complete with steam coming out of the ears, as I read this.

If I could be anybody in the world, it wouldn't be Joel Osteen. Cookie monster?...maybe. Psy?...Yeah, baby! But, Joel Osteen? nah.

I guess that depends on how you define eloquent. JAL can certainly crank out the corny, hay seed humor as well the best of them.

I'm not sure what criteria we can use to establish a rating system, but I would probably have to say that VPW was the "undisputed king of offshoot ministries", at least as it relates to the ex-Way community. The Way is really just an offshoot of B.G. Leonard's ministry. The evidence of that is clearly depicted in Mrs. Wierwille's book.

Hi, Steve. We have a new thread called of healing and day- to- day life. It's in the Matters of Faith forum. Perhaps you would like to visit it and elaborate a bit more.

I, too, lived a somewhat sheltered life when I was in the ministry. Lots and lots of information escaped my notice. If you aren't familiar with John's connection to the items you listed, you might, if you so choose, revisit some of the many threads here that deal with said items. More eloquent than the Doctor? In case this bit of information has escaped your notice, I'll just go ahead and let the cat out of the bag. Wierwille was not a doctor. His doctorate was as phony as (insert phony item of choosing here). Yep, that's right. His "doctorate" was awarded by a degree mill. Of course, it served its purpose well. It lent credibility to the façade he used to hide his elaborate plagiarism scheme. What's that you say? You didn't know PFAL was really a bunch of material he stole from other people? He might have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those pesky, meddling kids at GSC.

In the Power For Abundant Living class (aka PFAL), Wierwille teaches that when a person is born into the world they are a twofold being. They have body and soul. Body is simply your physical being, your skin, bones, pinky toes and so on. Way theology defines soul as being one's "breathlife". In accordance with that definition, soul begins with the first breath and ends with the last and, as such, is only temporary. The spiritual component is absent. (Soul is sometimes referred to as the spirit of man and not to be confused with the spirit of God.) A third component, known as spirit, enters the picture if and when a person becomes a born-again Christian. The spiritual component is thought to be eternal. At that point, they are considered to be a believer. Without spirit, they are considered to be an unbeliever. That's the simple definition. As you delve into Way theology, however, it becomes progressively more nuanced. Calling someone an unbeliever is sometimes meant to have dehumanizing implications. Wierwille goes to some length in the PFAL class to differentiate between someone who has not heard enough to choose the new birth and someone who has heard but still rejects it. Those who lack the spiritual component are thought to be empty vessels, sometimes referred to as "empties floating by". There is definitely a sense of elitism that accompanies self identification as a believer. It becomes progressively more nuanced and elite, the deeper one becomes involved and committed to the organization.

Hi, Socks. I always thought Hot Tuna was some primo stuff. I have strange tastes, though. Bad chicken, on the other hand, is an aversion I can get behind. Sounds to me like this Momentus gig is some bad chicken, rancid, if you will. Stinky-ola-cola. "Proceed directly to dumpster and pitch it with gusto" kind of stinky.

Thanks, modcat5. I wasn't sure if my comment was relevant. I think I have a better grasp now on what the thread is about.

I'm not really sure what the question is but here is my take on the "TWI experience". What affected me most and continues to affect me to a lesser degree, was not so much what I believe(d), but rather the dynamics of the lifestyle we tried to live. I mean, FellowLaborers was essentially an experiment in the commune lifestyle, using religion as a pretext. (Minus the sex, drugs and Rock and Roll) People are all over the charts on their religious/spiritual beliefs but the thing we all have in common is we tried to live a contrived lifestyle. We were all affected in our own ways, some to a minimal degree, some profoundly. Make no mistake, though, we were all affected.

All too true. Re: going to the Lord in prayer. What we were encouraged to do was recite our lift list while speaking in tongues. In retrospect, it now seems more like we were trying to invoke some sort of magical spell.