waysider

Uncle Winkie----HMMMM! Isn't Uncle Winkie Day when we're supposed to burn all our old dryer sheets? :blink:

OK, Chatty, You've got me hangin' in suspenders(Gettin' too fat for a belt) :( What's the next stop on this "Magical Mystery Tour"?

A person can stand in the pulpit and declare the moon is made of green cheese, it simply does not make it true. Teaching is not limited to what is expounded from the pulpit or recorded on some sound stage. A person must teach by example also or their ramblings are just that: ramblings. I would humbly suggest that one look beyond the flowery words on a recorded tape and ask themself honestly whether the expounder adhered to his or her profession of what they presented as Truth. Jesus never recorded any tapes or spoke at any SNS(Sunday night service) but he certainly lived one amazingly exemplary life. Actions speak louder than words.

White Dove-----------You have quoted VPW as saying: "Do what God tells you to do, not what people think you should do." Surely you must realize that he also said that when a "man of God" speaks, it is equivalent to God speaking . A suggestion, request or demand from a leader was to be interpreted as being "the" word of God. Questioning the man of God was equivalent to arguing with God. You will find this on page 10 of the AC(advanced class) syllabus. One of the scripture references given is Acts 9:13-15. In addition, you will find ( also on page 10) the admonition that revelation can change as circumstances change. I Samuel 23: 10-18 is but one example that was cited. This may be a bit off topic but he also taught in this same class that"Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation." He used II Cor. 4:16 to "selectively" prove his opinion on this. That is utter nonsense. Does this mean that the person who has never SIT(spoken in tongues) can't possibly receive revelation from God? According to VPW(Victor Paul Wierwille) , the answer would be yes. Now, as to your reference to VPW saying "You can't go by-----------what the clergy say." may I remind you that he originally made these statements before there were any TWI clergy in place. He was using this diatribe to disparage "denominational" clergy. His stance on clergy was that the only TRUE clergy were those who God himself had ordained. So in essence , when he said "do what God tells you to do" he was saying that TWI clergy were 1) Ordained of God and 2) When they spoke you would be foolhardy to argue because you were virtually arguing with God.( Arguing with God would seem to be a bad thing, don't you think?)

"The Word of God is our only rule of faith and practise." If not even one person here subscribed to that philosophy(Yes, the dreaded P word) the point would still be moot because it is up to TWI to live up to its' own professed creed. Like Donnie used to say: "Do It!" (That's the literal translation according to usage for the word "practise" as used above in that catchy slogan.)

Dove--------I was going to put up one of those off topic smilies but decided it might dilute the seriousness of this subject.The point being stressed is that VPW and others in authoritative positions selectively taught portions of scripture that bolstered their own personal stances and agendas and selectively ignored portions that might cast an unfavorable light on their own behaviour. As to the matter of receiving instruction regarding secular matters; Are you not aware that in the more recent days of TWI no one was to go anywhere unless they were accompanied? Did you perhaps miss the post by someone who had to have special dispensation just to take a cake deorating class? Did you miss the post by the person who had to take a "believer" to prom rather than his girlfriend? Doing "your own thing" was definately not a good recipe for remaining in good stead with leadership. Like you, my most vivid memories are of the early days and I did not endure much of the legalism that came in later times but I did see plenty of examples of people using The Word to fulfill their own purposes even in those early days. In summary,"selective teaching" is wrongly dividing The Word in a larger, more contextual sense to serve ones' own purpose. BTW--The airplane analogy----------

Motherof2---------You are probably too young to have heard the old adage:"You can't judge a book by its' cover" but it would seem from your post that you have experienced it for yourself. Your father sounds like a man you can be proud to call your Dad. :)

Stop by for a visit any time. I'd like to tell you there will be a Danish and coffee waiting for you but I'm not in charge of refreshments.

The granddaddy of all selective teachings,in my opinion, was the session on how Eve was deceived by the serpent. Not just the content and privately drawn conclusions of the lesson but its' very placement in the class at a point so strategically vital to maintaining the interest of the students. It could have easily been incorporated into session 12 from an academic standpoint but that would have defeated the selective intent of the lesson. That's just my opinion.

Sometimes when I hear a news caster or a co worker talk about "issues" when what they really mean are "problems", it reminds me of how we always had to say we had "opportunities". (Meaning an opportunity to operate the "law" of believing.) "Yes, Officer, the mugger just whacked me upside the head, between my eyes with a tire iron and stole all my money but HEY! No problem, just another opportunity to operate the magic "law" of believing."

Dove--------Do you not realize that by only quoting part of what I said you have changed its' meaning? This thread most certainly should include PFAL when citing examples because that is where the precedent was set for the practice of selectively teaching. And yes, PFAL did promise to help us find "a more abundant life' and certainly you must remember the teachings that ensued on the various meanings of the word "life". One , as you may recall, was "life in every respect". The ice cream store/car repair references serve no purpose other than to detract from the heart of this discussion which is "were or were not there examples of 'selective teaching' used in TWI? And no, I not talking about where someone may have presented secular teachings on subjects they thought might benefit the body. I am referring to teachings that were expressly presented in a manner that suggested they dealt specifically with Gods' Word. Again, if that is not what the original poster was referring to,please correct my misunderstanding.

I,too, was around in the '70's. The dichotomy of values was already in place. It was not nearly as visably because the hierarchy was so small in comparison to the number of people at the twig level who,for the most part, had genuine desire to see the Truth as they knew it become a living reality. Much of what happened I only now am starting to understand as I look at it in retrospect. But yes, many of these things being discussed were in fact already taking place in the '70's.

Dove--------If I may kindly point out, Skyrider did not call the scriptures adolesent . The context of the post suggests that the appoach was adolesent. Yes, it would be foolish to think that by going to the ice cream store one might aquire skills in car repair. May I again point out that we are not discussing car repair. We are discussing a class that promised to show us how Gods' Word could be used to benefit our lives. It many respects, it failed that mission. Even a brief review of "The Green Card" would prove that out.That has already been done here. The recent discussions of "harmony in the home" are just one example. But again, the focal point of this discussion should be whether or not there was selectivity in teachings. And yes, I'm interpreting that to mean the PFAL class as well since it was always referred to as the "foundational" class or a primer for subsequent teachings. If I am wrong in thinking that is what the original poster had in mind, I welcome the correction.

All she needs now are some pointy, red cowboy boots

Just the other day, my grandson, Cletus(that's his name) was whinnin' and carryin' on about how his new game thingy wouldn't let him get to the next level(whatever the heck that is).I looked him straight in the eye and said "Cletus(that's his name), when I was your age I lived in a commune and slept in a room about the size of your Aunt Minnies' outhouse. There was little else to eat except for birdseed which the city folks called millet and some strange stuff we called familia . I always thought that was a queer kind of name since it didn't look at all familia' to me. "Oh, Grandpa,said Cletus(that's his name),you tell the best fairy tales. How about tellin' that one about that guy who was King Of The World and could make stuff happen just by thinkin' about it?" "Not now, Cletus(that's his name), I have to get all these little hs's and big HS's copied from my old Holy Book into my new Holy Book so's I can stand approved before "The Big Guy". "Who's The Big Guy?, asked Cletus(that's his name)" Why, my twig leader, who else?" said I. Geeze, these kids today don't know nothin'!

Every time I see one of those TV specials where someone tears down an old wall and releases some poor spirit who has been trapped behind it for centuries, I become even more and more perplexed. After all, even Casper was able to pass through walls and he was one of the FREINDLY ones! Plus, he had his own TV show and theme song as well. I guess the ones with reduced abilities must be the ones to be wary of. OOPS---Got to go. I hear someone moaning to get out of the linen closet. I hope he doesn't want me to open a window, it's freezing outside.

"McDonalds is my kind of place(clap clap) they serve fried rattlesnakes---------" OOPS---Sorry, I was just remembering how we rewrote their jingle for them. I don't remember the numbers either but I seem to recall the sign originally said"xxxxxxSERVED".(not SOLD) I wouldn't swear to it. It just seems that way. We used to go there to hang out in the parking lot. The whole idea was to find a parking spot at the back of the lot and back in. ALWAYS back in. That way you had a clear view of whoever pulled in the lot. We parked 3 or 4 cars side by side and prepared ourselves for future rounds of "Name That Tune". You had to buy something to stay so hot chocolate was the #1 choice. It was cheap and because this was a wintertime activity it served a function of providing heat. Guys with "hot" cars used to drive around and around the parking lot in counterclockwise circles. We called them "piston heads." (A "head" was a person who was obsessed with something,later on it was specifically with drugs). We joked that their tires probably wore out twice as fast on the left side from driving around in circles. I wonder,too, if any of this would have happened if they had provided inside seating. All they had was a walk-up counter. It would be interesting to research whether tire sales figures dropped when they added inside dining.

What is "inflow outflow"? (No responses from plumbers or septic tank workers,please!)

You got it Bluzeman_____ None of us are free if one of us is chained none of us are free. This line typifies a technique used in blues lyrics where one sentence runs into the next and the punctuation that seperates them is not so easily discerned. "King" Solomon Burke has an extremely powerful version on his "Don't Give Up On Me" CD.

Rascal-------You asked about a buffer zone where no unspiritual were allowed to dwell. I remember quite well and this was part of what I was referring to in my post n the "Impossible To--------" thread when I talked about people being tossed out in the middle of the night if they dared to question authority. This wasn't just a "don't come back to our little twig" kind of thing. This was "get hundreds of miles away before the sun comes up" type of thing. I think this is a face of "the way" that many people never even dreamed existed let alone were exposed to. Scriptural references? Yep. Lots of them were given at the time. There always seemed to be some kind of way to rationalize this type of thing but I suspect that to be true in any cult.

"HHHHelp Mr. Wizard!!" Tooter would exclaim as the wizard would utter those words which would activate a tjme vortex that would spin Tooter back to his home in the present. The lesson that Tooter learned from his adventures was that the grass only seems greener on the other side of the fence. In my hometown it was run with the"King Leonardo and His Short Subjects" show.The show also featured a segment called "Fractured Fairy Tales" which was narrated by Edward Everet Horton. Good call, highway29.(Itchy Brother and Biggie Rat are here beside me and they are both saying---------"Next!!"

Trissen trassen trossen trome. Time for this one to go home.

Is that Archie B. speaking to Gloria?

There is also one called ROTO-ZIP. I used one recently to do some work that would have otherwise required a router. It is very similar to Dremel and ,in fact, some of the accessories are interchangable.

That would have to be "Katmandu"--------------Bob Seger You better listen my brother "cause if you do you can hear There are voices still calling across the years And they're cryin' across the ocean And they're cryin' across the land And they will until we all come to understand