waysider

Thanks, Mike That helped me a great deal. I now understand how to use the "ignore" feature. (Something I hadn't even considered until now.)

WHAT!!!! A shill in a preacher's audience?!!!! Please say it ain't so. :biglaugh:

I have no idea if it is still taught but I do remember this being quite a big deal in the AC in 1973. It wasn't only anger but the whole spectrum of emotions. In other words, if you suddenly felt unexplainable fear, anxiety, sexual desire etc. when in the presence of someone, this was supposed to be the Christ in you speaking to your spirit via the five senses. This is on page 8 of the AC "silly-bus" and is called The Great Principle. God's Spirit teaches His creation in you which is now your spirit and your spirit teaches your mind. Then, it becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act. The graphic for it shows God as a triangle(interesting choice for an anti-trinitarian group,no?) directed toward a circle that had "spirit" directing to "soul" directing to "body" and directed outward as you speak out. I guess the speaking out part would only apply if you subsequently divulged your revelation. Seems like a long way to go just to say you had a "gut feeling".

GEORGE!! You could have just posted a lyric! You didn't have to reveal your personal life!

Mike Maybe I can help you out on the mirror question(Left/right;Up/down) The answers you seek to that question can be found in any Physics 101 class. Pay particular attention to the properties of light and lenses. Some areas you may want to focus on(no pun intended) are: 1.) Snell's law of refraction 2.)The differences between "real" images and "virtual" images.Those are physics terms, Mike, and as such are objective and quantitatve in nature. They are not subjective or profane terms. 3.)Internal reflection and critical angle Hope that helps On the PFAL= revelation thought: Are you suggesting that B.G. Leonard originally got this revelation directly from God and since VPW "borrowed" it from him, it is therefore "new" revelation? Just curious.

Close enough for me,GSG. The actual title is" Your Love Keeps Lifting Me" but people often call it "Higher and Higher". Rock on, Bro.

Oh, I don't know. I'm a bit curious to see the response to my question on post #41.

Thanks, Belle I had no idea you and I work at the same company.

Mike Can you be a bit more specific on that "He added a bunch to PFAL too." statement? What things do you think God added via PFAL that were unknown previously?

Sorta-----Because they lack the protective qualities that pigment provides, they are very prone to things like skin cancer and blindness due to the absence of a filtration mechanism to defer harmful wavelengths of light. Of course, age has a tendency to make us want to rest more also. Like a lot of us here at GSC, the Winters ain't gettin' no younger if you catch my drift.

You know, once I was downhearted Disappointment was my closest friend But then you came and he soon departed And you know, he never showed his face again

Another Spot I'm at a loss for words so I'll just say that I am so sorry to hear of your experience. It takes a lot of courage to relive something like that. Thank you.

Speaking of Winter------- There is a guy who did the harp work on "White Hot And Blue" named Pat Ramsey(Patramsey.com), who is currently working out of Florida with a band called Pat Ramsey And The Blues Disciples. He generates a lot of the same type of vocal style as Winter and his riffs pull in that JW sound. He has a killer axe man named Dave Renson and (for Chas.) a really excellent female bass player named Eloise Davis. Their most recent CD (Live at the Big Bend Blues Bash) has some excellent harp driven work. Of special note is a tune called "I'm Allergic To Work". One listen, though, will assure you they are not.(allergic to work, that is)

I'm so glad I finally found you Yes, that one in a million girl When I put my lovin' arms around ya Honey, I can stand up and face the world Hint: This singer was backed by The Funk Brothers on this one.

Think of all the hate there is in Red China Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama You can leave here for 4 days in space But when you return it's the same darned place You can bury your dead but don't leave a trace Hate your next-door neighbor But don't forget to say Grace Eve of Destruction------------Barry McGuire (Has anything really changed?)

Why didn't somebody call a "toe truck"?

Personally, I couldn't care less if she sits cross-legged on a purple carpet and prays to the almighty horned toad in the sky. But, if you are going to preach that homosexuality is devil posession and then proceed to practice it, isn't that a bit like saying"Hey, look at me! I'm posessed!"? Mind you, now, it has not been documented conclusively that such is,in fact, the reality of what is actually going on.

When I posted earlier, I was not trying to be judgemental or even assign some spiritual aspect to the discussion. I was simply stating a personal experience that was part of my life many years ago. My friend was an out-patient with diagnosed schizophenia and took very powerful meds. by RX. He was very artistic, pacifistic, and had a heart of gold. He was in a fragile state. When he met these people, he became obsessed with the satanic bible and coven type activity. There was talk on his part of small animal sacrifise but I never saw any evidence that this was factual. One of my loving twig mates was kind enough to tell him they knew he was posessed. I just tried to help him see that he needed to slow down a bit and think about what he was becoming involved with. This was early '70s and this stuff was quite popular at that time. Remember the Stones album with the 3D cover? When he died, the police quite naturally interviewed me. They asked me if he was involved with any of this activity and I told them he was.When I pointed out to them that his suicide note was not written in what appeared to be his own handwriting(I had known him for 15 years), they seemed to shrug it off. I don't know any thing about suicide notes but it seemed weird to me. Of course, my involvement with TWI required that I put it all in my past and move on. Obviously, I was not able to completely do that because here I am 35 years later recounting the event. I felt I had to say that because even after all these tears, I still miss the big doofus.

Wierwille taught, as early as the PFAL class, that life begins with the first breath and ends with the last. That was the foundation for the various paramutations that evolved over the years. As with many things he taught, he had a tendency to take a complex issue and reduce it to utter simplicity. Then, to compound the issue, he made cynical remarks about anyone who couldn't see how "simple" the answer was. The implication was often that if you don't see the simplicity you must not have reached a high enough level of spiritual maturity. Take your pick of examples: adultery, abortion, mental illness, cancer, poverty, etc. The answer was always "get them into the PFAL class so they can see the simplicity for themselves". Consider ,if you will, the much heralded "green card" used to enroll students for PFAL. It really doesn't matter that someone may jump in and point out that they personally received this promise or that. The point is that this "magical class" reduced the answers to lifes' crucial issues to one simple Bible class. Does that mean that there was nothing of value to be found in the class? No,in my opinion, but it also doesn't mean that everything in life can be reduced to some cut and dry, pat solution.

Geeze! I've never seen this thread before.(Not stalkin' ya, Bolshevik,honest) (There was another thread on abortion in the doctrinal section a couple of months ago.) I'm gonna have to go back and look at this one. OK---That's it. I'm never going to follow you from one thread to another ever again. HAHA-----had my fingers crossed behind my back!

Bolsky It may seem like a lot to sort through but I know you can handle it 'cause we're all "believin' fer ya". But seriously, here it is in a nut shell (OK, I meant to say a nut's opinion) The thoughts and attitude you carry around in your mind can have a very real effect on your physical health as well as your mental outlook and wellness.(This has been highly documented in medical literature.) The thoughts and attitude you carry around in your mind can NOT have any real effect on whatever happens in the physical world unless you yourself take some sort of action to bring it to pass or keep it from coming to pass. If you want to remove "religion" from the equation, just ask yourself what law of physics regarding energy or energy transfer could even remotely explain the "law" of believing?, none that I can think of, especially not "action/reaction". I'm sure Oprah has garnered a lot of attention with her endorsement of "the Secret" but that's the driving force behind the entertainment business---------"Keep their attention!"(It's pretty hard to entertain the public if they don't pay attention.)

Wow! That just about says it for me, too. Except that the 5 years turned out to be much longer and I never really believed I would get posessed.(I did think,though, that"bad" things would happen, especially after I quit tithing/ABS.)

When I got involved with The Way, college was not really an option for me. I was already on my own and had very little money. I was trying to put together some kind of career in music and theatre.I had made a lot of solid connections. (My talents were only so-so but you never know where the next road may lead.) Sooo, I stopped pursuing my dream in favor of TWI. As I was on my way out of TWI, I went to school on a loan and worked night jobs.(I was only a twiggy by this time) I got my A.A.S. in a medical field and discovered I hated the work I had studied for. So, I went back for another associate and almost finished when the school pulled the plug on the program. This was a state school, too.( TWI is not the only organization that has misrepresented a program.) Now, I work in a mechanically related field. It's not great but it pays the bills(If I keep them low enough) and I'm not that far away from retirement. I don't have regets about college per se, but I do reget not pursuing my initial dreams. I guess a lot of people in this world who have never heard of TWI could recount similar events. No matter who you are or what you've accomplished, you will always find yourself saying"What if?" from time to time. That's human nature. But, to address the initial question: TWI was no substitute for college by a long shot.

I don't consider your question to be "mocking" at all. It deserves an honest answer. I will try to do that, although, I am only speaking for myself and don't presume my answer to be any "voice of expertise". What you are calling "exorcism" would be somewhat parallel to what The Way called" casting out devil spirits". There was a protocol of sorts that had to be followed in order to do this. Step one involved knowledge of the spirits' presence. This came by virtue of a type of Divine revelation known as " discerning of spirits". This was to be used in conjunction with two other types of revelation called "word of knowledge" and "word of wisdom"( which is what to do with the d.o.s. and w.o.k.) Absence of these factors prohibited the process. Furthermore, it was taught that, unless a person subsequently made changes in their thinking and actions after the casting out, the devil spirit would return and bring even more spirits along with it. Thus, supposedly having knowledge that someone was "posessed was not an automatic license to cast out the spirit/spirits. I am stating the above as a matter recall and not as a matter of judgement of the process or particpants. Hope that helps. This is why it becomes a critical issue if, in fact, a leader who represents credibilty, is found to be living a life that is, by the Way's own standards, one of Devil spirit influence

I can remember hearing in formal presentations(ie: taped classes, Advanced Class, etc.) that The Word is multi-leveled in its connotations. This was used as part of illustrating the meaning of Hebrews 5:12-14 where the comparison is made between "milk" for the unskilled babe and "meat" for those of full age who could discern both good and evil. There was much encouragement to go beyond the "milk" and seek the "meat" of the Word. There was also a feeling of smuggness( for lack of a better word) when one felt that they saw a "deeper" meaning in a section of scripture. After all, who wanted to think of themself as a " babe" in the Word when others around them seemed to be growing up? This was especially true,IMO, in dealing with scripture that related to adultery. When one heard VPW ( or any one of a number of other high level personnel) teach that the greater meaning of adultery was of a spiritual nature(and it WAS taught that way quite often) it gave the hearer a feeling of having reached some new level of spiritual understanding. This feeling of having some inside track on spiritual matters is where the gist of the issue lies not just relating to adultery but any number of other topics. VPW went even further with this concept and used it to drive home the point that (according to him) the Trinity was actually spiritual idolatry (and spiritual adultery) and accepting it as so was a sign of spiritual growth. Again, who didn't want to feel like their spiritual understanding was being enlarged? As to children in CF&S, I saw many under-aged students in this class, including a family member. In today's society, there are many who would look on that sort of particpation as child endangerment and felonious.