waysider

Thank you, FC, for your response to the questions I asked in my post. VeePeePee also made this statement in the piffle class, though he implied that it was in spite of specific incidents (that have been cited here) and the fact that David had been weighed in the balance and found lacking.(Notice how the examples are out of chronological order?) One has to wonder if he wasn't crafting a personal alibi to cover what his intuition told him might come back to bite him in the arse. For the record: I don't harbour any anger or hatred for the man. I just want to come to a better understanding of how this sort of deception unfolds so I don't get fooled again and can maybe prevent others from getting duped as well.

Here's one I heard on the "60's channel this morning. It's pretty easy, also. I'm not sure if it's been done here before but here it is. Some will come and some will go We shall surely pass When the one that left us here Returns for us at last We are but a moments sunlight Fading in the grass

Geeze----The words in my concordance keep getting smaller with each passing year. Would someone be so kind as to help me find that scripture that says David was referred to as a man after Gods' own heart? I'm also interested in who made the statement, when it was made and the context in which it was stated.

lone wolf Thought you said in post #139 that David was NOT the spiritual leader. What did I miss? And yeah, God gave the inspiration, but the "hard copy" came to us from fallible human beings. Remember session #2? That's part of the problem with the way TWI conditioned our thinking. We were supposed to hold onto everything they ever taught us and never even take the time to consider that maybe, just maybe, someone elses viewpoint might be just as valid as our own. There were some good lessons I learned in TWI. I won't deny that. But their approach to academic exploration and logical reasoning was deplorable at best. When a person refuses to at least consider the merits of another persons' opinion and, instead, does verbal gymnastics to try to justify there own thinking, it seems to imply an unwillingness to give a serious ear to what the other has to say and suggests that it can't possibly have any merit. Was VPW the real deal? Well, he certainly "dealt" us some powerful logic and reasoning lessons in session #7 that had some "real" long lasting effects. Sidenote: the word "real" is not derived from the same Greek word as "good".

To each his own Said Farmer Jones As he kissed Ol' Bossy the cow.

UMMMMM!------This thread is about things that SHOCK you, not things that give you cause to rejoice. Just funnin' with you, dude. Hope you don't mind.

Maxwells' Silver Hammer----------The "Fab Four"

Yeah! (What Dooj and Rascal said.)

The Law was not Israels' "spiritual leader". The Law was a stop-gap measure intended to give some semblense of order until a "spiritual leader" arrived. The Law kept a sense of organization in the physical realm because the people were not yet ready to accept a "spiritual leader". The Law was a supervisor of the physical, not a leader of the spiritual. The education in TWI: This was one of my biggest disappointments not one of my consolations. I went to Fellowlaborers with the enticement of learning The Book Of Acts in both an academic way as well as a practical application. The promise was that I would have something to take back to my hometown that would help people understand how to live a day by day and moment by moment experience that would rival the first century church in intensity. Instead, I leaned how to sprout mung beans, make my own mayonaise, and keep my sanity in the face of madness. Yeah, I got an education for sure. Little of it had any academic merit related to The Bible. Johniam---------Would you be so kind as to demonstrate those research skills you learned in TWI by explaining the essence of that passage in I Chron 8:14 that refers to David as a "Man of God".?

Oh, yeah. That conspiracy stuff was a huge deal in Fellowlaborers. Lots of stories I could tell that are directly related. Any other FL out there that might recall a few?

Here is a point to consider. I have three family members who would likely post here IF they had access to the internet.(which they do not) Others here could likely speak of similar circumstances. Soooo------To compare the number of players on team x to the number of players on team y is a moot point. If only TWO people posted, the CONTENT of the posts would still be at the heart of the importance of having a place to do so. Just my 2 cents. Probably inflated at that!

None of us are free If one of us is chained None of us are free--------------------(Nann, Weil, Russell)

Soggy I agree with the essense of your post, especially the phrase"despite it all".

John, John, John----------- Whiney women are all that frequent this thread? Trust me, I am neither of the two.(whiney nor female) Heck, I'm not even bitter or angry. It's been too long ago. Why are there so many women here? Think logical for a moment ,John. What gender comprises the majority of victims of the offence being discussed? Sometimes I think it is not TWI that you and some other posters are trying to defend,it is that doubt that lingers deep inside but refuses to come to the surface. It has to be justified in order for its presence to be tolerable. Does TWI need to be "good"? TWI was NEVER "good". There were some good people. There was some good Bible taught. There were some good times. But the organization itself? Nope. Don't see it. Now along comes someone who chimes in"Oh Yeah! Well I learned about the lost piece of silver coin in TWI!" Just remember that while someone was learning about finding the lost coin, someone else may have been learning what it meant to lose a an irreplacable part of their innocence both physically and mentally, not to mention the spiritual innocence that was sacrificed on the alter of self serving hypocrites. Does that sound like anger or bitterness? It's not. It's just the ability to look an ugly truth straight in the eye. Bring on the blowtorch. (Application of heat is a tried and true method of bringing a festering boil to a head.)

I gotta go with Eddie Gomez for jazz. Victor Wooten and Stanley Jordan for "avant gard" jazz. Rick Reed and Bill Stuve for blues. Making his way into the spotlight--------Steve Perakis(Sean Carney Band)-----he's been around quite awhile but is just starting to get some attention. OOPS!------Left out Jaco Pastorius

"For yea,verily, it did come to pass in the days of flower power, Tower Of Power, and the temptations of Eve that it was thus spoken."--------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- "If thou shalt but sign upon the card of green, thou shalt find the salvation thou seeketh, harmony in the home ,and a Cadillac with a diamond in the back, sunroof top and gangstah whitewalls." "In their confusion, the people pondered -------"Is there nothing else we may do?" "ABS!", came the answer,---------"ABS MUCH!"

Thank you, Mo, for restoring a sense of sanity to this thread even if but for a fleeting moment. Glad to see you are on the mend! :) Jesus Christ is not the Avon Lady------Ding! Dong!-----Hey! Where did everybody go?!!! (Sorry, temptation overcame me.)

MAN--------Maybe you could claim that is an acronym(You know, like M.A.N.="most acrobatic ninja"---or something) Anyway, I'm kinda bummed that everybody already gave you all the GOOD advise.( Not really :) ) Welcome to the Cafe! Oh, don't forget there is a PM feature. I don't use it very much because I like to say most things publically but it comes in very handy for loaning each other books, etc. and for maybe stating personal info. that really does not pertain to the general community. :dance:

My daughter isn't either, Jean, because I don't have one. The scenario being discussed is hypothetical. Just for a brief time, imagine youself to be the mother(hypothetically) of one of these woman who have come forth and stated their experiences. Remember the old saying----------"Walk a mile in my shoes"? You have come, rather strongly, to the defense of your real life daughter. I suspect your reactions to this type of activity, as a parent, would be highly charged with outrage. Am I wrong to suppose this? I hope not. Mr. Hammeroni-------It would seem that even Mr. Allen was not beyond a bit of "borrowing" himself. That is actually a very famous quote that predates Howard. It was spoken by someone who actually had attained a high level of esteem beyond the cornfields of "Ahiya". While it may not be so bad to use a famous quote that seems to fit the circumstance, it's definetly not cool to claim it as ones' own much less allow people to think it may have been Divinely inspired.

Jesus Christ is not Chuck Norris Ya see, 'cause Chuck Norris is God and if Jesus is Chuck Norris------------ AHH! Never mind!

Dear Mr Lone Wolf McQuaide You have stated in your post #99 that considering statistics relating to Scientology or Islam is of no value because they are, in your words, "false religions". Would you care to expound on what you deem to be a "real" religion? Perhaps you might even expand that to explain why The Way should be defined as a "real" religion. BTW This Thread is not about God. This thread is not about Jesus. This thread is not about Lucifer. This thread is not about how God has no hands but our hands This thread is not about how many lost souls got saved in your fellowship. This thread is about answering the question: Was VPW "the real deal"? Since no one has yet to define the term "real deal", perhaps you would care to offer some enlightenment in that respect. Waysider (a name that carries a good deal of totally intentional ambiguity)

Nope.(See post #52)

"Do you really believe that Wierwille has done anything close to deserving eternal death?" Not my call to make. After hearing accounts of his physical disgressions,though, it has occurred to me that , as heinous as they were, they didn't compare to how he spiritually raped some of us, depriving us of ever trusting any organized religion or organization again. edited for spelling error

Well, there you have it. Now we have a thread of good and a thread of bad. Maybe we could do the Ben Franklin thing where we make two lists and see which outweighs the other.

Well, this is off topic, but I couldn't resist the chance to respond to it. ChattyKathy mentioned that our ABS is used to help fund TWIs' monitoring activities of GSC . I'm not sure exactly why, but it kinda tickles me that my hard earned dollars are being wasted to see if my hard earned dollars are being wasted. Anothern---------You can't change the past. If it helps with your recovery to "spill your guts", I'm more than happy to offer a receptive ear. As a parent,myself, I can understand the disdain others may feel. But, hey, Would it be better if you had just kept this information hidden? If it's OK with you, I will pray for your continued recovery.