waysider

LNM I have posted the specifics regarding that incident but I don't recall where and when. I think it might be on *my story*. It's what( in retrospect) has convinced me that revelation is VERY real and not just some little "whisper in the ear, did I really hear that?" kind of deal. I don't think the subject of debuhl spurts had even been introduced to me yet at that time. I had only been speaking in tongues for a day or two and had not had the class yet. It was the first time I did a "lift list". I know now that I should have followed my own thoughts on the matter but hind sight is always 20/20.

Eva CassidyPeople Get Ready

Actually, I believe God WAS telling me, "Stay out, stay out!" It happened within the first week or so after I was witnessed to. I didn't know what to make of it so I asked my twig leader who then assured me it was nothing more than unrenewed mind. It was, by far, the most VIVID case of "unrenewed mind" I ever experienced. My mistake was in listening to the twig leader instead of heeding the warning that was given to me. What did I know? I hadn't even taken the class at that point in time. I never even understood what had happened until I got to GSC and started to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

I started playing in little bands in about the 8th grade. Parties, school dances and that kind of thing. Then, in about the 10th grade, I started playing in bar bands. Pretty good money for a kid. One night we were setting up in this little club and a couple guys right out of "The Godfather" came through the front door. "Hey, kid", they said, "Lemme see yer union card". "Huh?" Long story short, they let us play the gig but by the next night we were all card carrying members of the American Federation Of Musicians. During high school, I had a day job in the summer working in an amusement park operating kiddie rides. Sometimes it was cutting it pretty close getting from there to the band gigs. Hmmm. I think I'm beginning to see why my grades were so bad.

They're coming to take me away HA HA To the funny farm Where life is beautiful all the time----------------------

Geeze. The original cover for The White Album looks pale in comparison.

"What am I forgetting?" Limb properties!!! The Way Of Ohio limb hq was located on a very nice property that is now at the heart of one of the most desirable real estate locations in Ohio. I do not know what it was worth when they unloaded it or what kind of profit was made on the sale. The point is, though, that TWI had many holdings that the average schmoe was not privy to. What about things like antique motorcycles and cars? I know the good dr. had a red 1967? Pontiac Bonnieville or Catalina that was restored to mint condition. I know it existed because I rode in it. He also had a vintage Indian motorcycle. Those items were purchased ( as far as I know) with either ABS money or gift donations. What ever became of them or the money generated from their sale? There are probably a lot of items we can't actually forget because we never even knew they existed.

When I was in about third or fourth grade, I had to walk the kid across the street to school. He was in first grade. Not that the streets of inner city Cleveland were dangerous or anything, our parents just thought it would be nice. One morning when Sammy arrived at the front door, as was his custom, I noticed his pants were on backwards. The fly was in the back. "Sammy",said I, "Your pants are on backwards." Sammy looked at me and shrugged. Then, without missing a beat, he said, with an air of disconcern, "Nobody will notice." Today people call him "Father Sam" You just never know how a kid's gonna turn out.

Remember the teaching VPW did about a preacher who worked on his sermon all week and kept the notes in his desk drawer? According to VP, the debuhl peeked at the notes at night and then turned the people's hearts against the Sunday sermon. ( I think this was in PFAL.) VP went on to say that's why he liked to "wing it" as he listened for God to tell him what to teach as he was teaching it. :blink: :asdf:

Actually, Mr. B., a "song" has words. What you have described is more technically a "piece of music". But what the heck, if it floats your boat, it's all good.

"Doctrine is a very, very small part of what makes a group a cult."-----Belle Amen to that!!

I think , to some extent, this controlling and micro-managing is a big part of why it can be so hard for some to "Just get over it and move on". It may also explain why some who remained at their local twigs and branches will insist they never saw any of these things. That's only logical. Much of this treatment was dealt out only in the so-called training programs. I mean, you can get past the doctrinal stuff like speaking in tongues or the trinity because those are things that lend themselves to discussion. This history of being controlled and micro-managed, however, is something that triggers an automatic response before you even know what hit you. The workplace can be one situation where you react almost instinctively to "control" and "directives" that mimic those experienced in TWI. It can make you overly submissive or overly defensive to similar treatment. It can spill into family life, also. That's why it's important to try to be cognizant of things that "push your button" and learn to deal with them logically. That's my opinion, anyway.

I always thought it was meant to suggest you should pledge your commitment to the organization, not to the organization's members, kinda like the old term "company man". To me, that definition seemed to make sense because we were convinced that there was no real "Word" outside of TWI's confines.

2 twigs= a branch?!!!!! Now that's one scrawney tree!

Oldies I read through the posted thread. I saw a discussion of the trinity but nowhere did I see anyone declare themself to be a trinitarian. And anyway, so what if they had? Does that automatically make them a "kook" or "extremist"? Does being a trinitarian invalidate anything else you might present? Think twice before you answer that last question. Bishop KC Pillai was a trinitarian. So was Bullinger. Are you prepared to label them as "kooks" and "extremists"? Was The Way a Satanic cult? I don't know. Neither do you. I do know, however, that they were/are a cult by the definition that is generally accepted by most of the non- TWI world. VPW once said that the "world" considered us a cult because we rejected the trinity. It is my suggestion that the "world" called us a cult because that's what we were. You have seen people recount experiences that just don't happen in Godly organizations. Would a Godly organization suggest that you STONE your children or toss them out of a moving car? I'm glad that your experience was not as extreme or damaging as some that have been posted here. That doesn't in any way justify what many here have had to endure. Please don't minimize the significance of others' experiences

Salute to the Armed Forces

annam I did not really understand the essense of your most recent post. Could you expand on what you mean by having a defence for the offense? People have been commenting on the fallout that ensued due to Wierwille's appointment of Martindale. (for the sake of brevity, we often resort to abbreviations such as VPW for Wierwille or LCM for Martindale or WOW for Word Over The World Ambassadors.) It's too labor intensive to keep using full names and terms when so many understand the meaning.) Your opinion on how this event affected The Way International(TWI) is just as much welcomed here as anyone elses. That doesn't mean, of course, that all will agree or disagree with you. So, with that in mind, how do you feel about the above mentioned event? Mistake? Not a Mistake? Don't care either way? None of the above.

Don't know if anyone remembers the manual we had to follow when we ran large meetings such as branch or area. It was jam packed full of do's and don't's such as when to start the coffee brewing, how long singing should be, etc. One of the items on the "don't" list was "pick your seat". Well, I'm pretty sure it meant you should sit where you could avail yourself and not with your buddies, but it was poorly written and quite ambiguous. We always got a big chuckle when we went over our check list and made sure to ask if any crew members had "picked their seats". Therefore, proper ANTI protocol dictates that one must "pick his/her seat" at every large function.

I'll just have to trust you on that.

"Song Of Hope"

Glass Harp w/ Phil Keaggy------"Changes"

Ah yes, Mr Miller Membership in an organization vs. lifestyle. Very good point. I don't personally know any Catholics, Baptists, etc. who lived a communal lifestyle based on their religious beliefs.(except the Priesthood) I suppose there could have been some, but not that has crossed my radar. I work with someone who was in a cult similar to TWI.(but much smaller) They do not have a web site. They do, however, email each other and get together for lunches, etc. I don't really view that as being any different, in essence, to having a web site like GSC. It's people with a common bond interacting with each other.In our case, though, the common bond included a very regimented lifestyle that you won't find on, let's say, a banjo pickers forum.

Annam If you really think people only come here to rehash the past and hold onto bitterness, then I suggest you take a closer look. Shop around a little. There're games, music, doctrinal discussions, silly jokes, movie trivia, etc. Why do we talk about the past? Well, partly because that's the common thread that is woven through the fabric of our lives. You are correct in saying there is sometimes bitterness here. That's how life is, a mixed bag of bitter and sweet. The great thing about The Cafe is that you can come and go as you please. Glad you stopped in. Hope you'll come back and visit again. Peace Waysider

"POP"= "Passing of a Patriarch", Chris Geer's lengthy description of his days spent with VPW as death knocked on his door. You can read it in its entirety here at the GSC. It's usually a good thing to read the many articles and documents available here before getting too overly consumed by the forums. Of course, the longer you have been "gone", the more catching up there is to do. Personally, I spent my first month or so here just reading some of these articles and info. before even posting for my first time. If there is a particular topic you would like to explore in a non- forum format, just ask someone for directions. Hope that answers your question.

LNM Have you considered posting in "My Story"? Long and complicated stories are welcomed there. (Plus, sometimes newcomers get a free coffee and Danish!)