waysider

May I point out the fact that not all victims of The Holocaust were Jewish? Furthermore, what of the many Americans, both Jewish and non-Jewish, who fought and died to liberate concentration camp inmates?(Jewish and non-Jewish) The scope of The Holocaust is far wider than museums and public recognitions. Wierwille placed a great deal of focus on his contention that the Jews, as a people and a nation, are somehow fraudulent and that we, the "born-again believers", have taken their place in God's grand scheme of time. It appears to me that there are really two distinct issues being intertwined with each other. 1. Was The Holocaust real? a. Were the victim estimates inflated? This question is historical in nature. 2. Did Wierwille teach that we(the "born-again believers" )are the "true" chosen people of God? This question is , by shear virtue of the definition of the word "anti", an issue of anti-Semitism. I would have to conclude that his teaching on this subject was anti-Semitic.

Well, here is what Dr. W. said about it in The Advanced Class on Power For Abundant Living.(pg.19) " All life is spirit, but not all spirit is eternal life spirit." "Any spirit to be manifested, shown forth, must be in a body." " A born-again believer may become afflicted with evil spirits. The spirits may affect or possess mind and/or body, but not the spirit." Scripture references given were Luke 3:16, Romans 4:3,11,16/9:6-8. Whew!!! Glad you didn't ask for my opinion on how much credibility he had!! edited to add a word( Oh my Gosh, Isn't that the one of the steps that the devil used to deceive Eve?!!!)

Ya know, here's the thing that kinda frosts my apricots. The original poster asked,"Did VPW really teach this"? By the time you get to the end of page #1, it's been changed to " I don't believe TWI taught this."( paraphrased) The poster did not ask what was taught in TWI, they asked, specifically if a particular person taught this.(VPW) Either he did or he didn't, it's really quite simple. Add a word, subtract a word, change a word--- what the heck, didn't ANYBODY pay attention to "Listening with a purpose"?

The "real" ones?

This thing has taken so many twist and turns and gone off on so many tangents, you would think there would be personal, anecdotal evidence out the yingyang. (good or bad) The key word here is personal, as in, "This actually happened to me as a result of the law of believing." I'm not gonna tell ya what I'm "believing" will happen. It's kinda like keeping your wish a secret as you break the "wishbone". Anybody?

I never heard VPW say "I hate the Jews." However, here is what I did hear him say: 1. The Holocaust was not real.( "If you don't believe it, read the recommended books.") 2. "The Jews of today are not the 'true' Jews."(" The Jews of modern times are descendants of Attila The Hun".) 3. " When God brings Israel back together, he won't use jet planes to do it" (This was in reference to the establishment of the nation of Israel after WWII.) 4."God gave up on Israel as being His 'chosen people' and that role now belongs to us."(TWI believers) ( Yes, those are quotation marks.) Nope, never heard him say, "I hate the Jews."

George! How did you find out about my Aunt Mabel's fruitcake? You're spookin' me, man. I was so afraid someone would find me out and now look what's happened!!! This stuff is real, I tell ya. I think you've even made a believer out of Ripley. (or not)

I was afraid someone would bring this up!! ;)

Well, let's see, now. We(FLO) had opening prayer and closing prayer at morning fellowship before our 5:30 run. (To insure a positive start to the day) That 2. Then, we had prayer before breakfast.(to insure the mush was cooked enough and the toast wasn't burnt) That's 3. (Skip the time spent at your day job. You didn't need to pray there, just witness and sell PFAL.) Then, Pray before evening meal.( to insure that the Swiss chard and red beets would meet all your dietary requirements) That's 4. Pray after evening meal (to insure that the evening's work would be "profitable".) That's 5. Pray after evening's work was finished(to insure a safe trip back to the compound.) That's 6. Pray before night twig. (To have the eyes of your enlightenment opened and your snores suppressed) That's 7. Pray after night twig( To insure you wouldn't have to go to a "house meeting" and pray some more) That's 8. 8x365 days=2,920x2 years= 5,840 (bare minimum group prayers) Nope.---Nothing ritualistic or cliche there that I can see. :asdf:

Would that be "rank" as in uninformed "sinner" or "rank" as in-----------"Oh, My!, This week old broccoli casserole sure is "rank"!! Never mind. I think I know the answer.

Ok-----I'm gonna flog the dead horse one more time. Or, for JonnyLingo and Templelady, "mush the dead sled dog". (On account of them bein' up there in Alaska and all that.) Anybody who stuck around TWI for any length of time knows that VeePee taught that if you were "born-again", you automatically qualified for a "sainthood certificate of authenticity". (ie: born-again=saint) Conversely, if you were not "born-again", you were a "sinner". (not the same thing as "one who sins", fortunately, because that would exclude a WHOLE lot of people, not the least of which is myself. Thus, " The 'law of believing' works whether it's operated by a "born-again believer" saint or a God rejecting lowlife, scum of the Earth "heathen" sinner." It just won't work if you happen to be a saint who is out of fellowship or can't get your believing up. :wacko: Sigh!!!----------This sainthood stuff really ain't all it's cracked up to be. edited to say: Ben Dare, Dundat!

"Pardon me, sir, exactly what part of ---'GEEZE!, You're Dumb SOB!'--- didn't you understand?" ;) Come on, now, you know you wish you could say it at least once!

Abi So sorry you were treated that way. I don't know what else to say except that you and your Mom and family deserved so much more.

GreaseSpot is more like a tavern than a cafe, no?

The next time I win the Mega-Lotto, things are gonna be different, I tell ya!!!

Larry This is a simple statement of fact. Rather than assign a personal aspect to it and then try to assert that the man is not fulfilling his ministry, why not deal with that statement first and calmly explain why you disagree with it?

Well, let's see now. 1. Believing works for saint and sinner alike. ------------BUT---------------------- 2. You didn't get what you were believing for because you were out of fellowship. (I was going to put more space in between those two statements but it seemed like they were already miles apart.)

Man, you said a mouthful-----------

Ummm? Mr. Oldiesman, sir? How exactly does a sinner have faith in God?

Mars.

A.D. I have an XM boombox at work. I listen to it through the day while I'm working but I don't focus my attention on it. I also just bought a new tuner that I keep in my pick-up truck. It cost me a whopping $38 at Wally-Mart. It has everything needed to listen to XM. It takes about 5 minutes(max.) to hook up. You can also stream it on your computer if that's more your style. They have over 100 music channels(no commercials). They have channels that are decade specific.(40s/50s/60s/70s,etc.) as well as channels that are genre specific(folk/bluegrass/classic country/ modern country/blues/ modern jazz/old school jazz, etc.) The 60s channel is pretty cool because they have an actual DJ come on between songs just like in the 60s. Plus, they air Wolf Man Jack shows. You can give it a free test ride if you want. Google xmradio.com and you can get info on how to do it. I've had it for quite a while and regular radio seems really lame when I try to listen to it. Beware, though, there is no censorship but they will block any channel you ask them to.

Thanks, Raf!

Dang! I'm at the computer that won't let me listen to this. Gonna have a listen first chance I get!

Is it possible that he was so entrenched in his "culture" that he simply did not realize it is illegal? Personally, I don't think so!!! Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I did not see the show mentioned. I think Whoopie needs to make it clear, though, whether she was "defending" or just offering an "explanation" of this culture.

Hi there, Bolski. Nothin' new to add, really. Just wanted to pop in and say-----