waysider

Oldies Let me boil this down for you. The basic premise taught in TWI( in "the good old days") was that a fetus is not alive until it takes its first breath. Period! No "viability", no "trimester demarcations"----Just a simple statement that life begins with the first breath and ends at the last. You can dance around and play semantic games all you want but it won't change the fact that this is what TWI taught. Dr. Wierwille taught essentially the same thing( though it was somewhat veiled) in the PFAL class. It was also presented this way in the *Christian Sex and More Sex* class. As I stated earlier, I am not posting to take a pro or anti stance. I am posting to confirm, once and for all, The Way's stance on abortion was that a fetus is not alive until it takes its first breath. Wierwille himself said as much. It's hard to believe that someone such as yourself who cherished his every word and phrase, somehow did not hear this. ( Or at least " read between the lines".) Personally, it matters very little to me how you stand on the subject. But I do feel quite strongly that you should acknowledge that the "first breath" concept is what was taught. edited to add: For me, at least, this is not about abortion but about accepting that this is what was taught, NOTabout trying to rationalize and second guess the message that was clearly proclaimed.

If anyone can do it, He'd be the one! :)

Written music, sheet music, musical score----Whatever you choose to call them, none of these are really "music" in and of themselves. They are simply methods of explaining what has been played. (or is expected to be played.) You can most certainly have music without the presence of the above mentioned. God's word is like that. The Bible, The Koran, The Torah-----They are all methods of trying to explain God's word. They, in and of themselves, are not God's Word, no matter how accurately they are researched and translated. They merely represent an attempted explanation of the essence of their message. You can most certainly have God's Word without the presence of the above mentioned.

I don't think God speaks to us in riddles. It only seems like riddles because we don't grasp the big picture. Do you think God speaks to you in ways that don't involve scripture? Do you think He speaks to you in ways that don't involve words and language? When you hold a newly born child and smell that unmistakable scent they exude, there is a certain type of "understanding" that sweeps over you. I think that sense of "understanding" is God speaking to you. When you embrace someone who is dear to you as you both grieve the loss of a loved one, there is a certain feeling that wells up over the both of you simultaneously. I believe God is *speaking* to you at that moment. No word studies, no lexicons, no classes or programs.------Just an inner sense of God giving you a lesson that transcends language as we know it. Kinda like being in the same room as someone you've been married to for many years. Just being in the same room is sometimes enough communication in itself without ever having to speak a word. Find a place that exemplifies the wonders of nature and sit quietly drinking it in. God will *speak* to you. You will hear Him if you don't try to squeeze his message into words.

My grandson, Cletus(that's his name) wants me to find out iffen they's gotta link to Pike's Peak Bible Learnin' School. I'm a hopin' this here post goes thru, as the snow seems to be buildin' up pretty fast on the satellite dish. Peace out. Waysider -----8/15/2007(Whew! It sure is hot outside!) PS-- My granddaughter Clara Belle (that's short for Helen) made me do the "peace out" thing. Sigh----- Where do these youg'uns get this stuff?

Yes, W.D., I see your point. Jesus Christ said " I am THE WAY----" and we were followers of Jesus Christ who is THE WAY.( or so we thought ourselves to be) However, in the context in which this was spoken,(did I mention I was there?) *The Way* being referred to was *The Way International*. "We are affiliated with The Way(International)."-----my words "We are not affiliated with The Way (International), we are The Way(International).---- his words Whether or not he read his "promo sheet" is a matter of conjecture and irrelevant to the point at hand.

WTH COLD!---VERY COLD! Did I mention that our freedom to pick and choose which advise we would accept and which we would reject was tempered by mind control?-----My bad. We trusted them(TWI leadership) because they convinced us they had an inside track on what was pleasing to God. They lied. They did not have an inside track. Why is it our fault that they chose to lie? SNIP--"They really had no business handing out personal advice to anybody- as a leader- ever- on any subject matter". SNIP Agreed! SNIP--"That does not implicate them in any shape or form."--SNIP As my twig leader* told *me in 1972, "We are not affiliated WITH The Way, We ARE The Way". That implies they spoke as representatives of the group as a whole and thereby implicates them.

Yep Near the intersection of Sandusky and Williams(southwest corner), just around the corner from The Little Brown Jug and across the street from Ohio Wesleyan University.

Careful, Mister P Next thing you know some Mansfield apologist will come crawling out of the woodwork to herald the wonderful time he had on a week long fishing trip with Mr. Mansfield and proclaim how Mr. M. taught him methods of baiting the hook that had previously been unknown to mankind. Holy cats!!! You may be correct about that similarity of the two men!

I don't have any sage advice but I still remember how to pray.

For the sake of clarification, I am not trying to proclaim a stance on the subject of abortion being right or being wrong. My opinion is a moot point. What I am trying to do is establish that Wierwille DID take a stance on how he regarded the subject. We all know, I believe, that a stance taken by Wirwille on any subject carried a tremendous amount of weight. (ie: "This is the stance that "DR" has taken so that's how I will stand also because he is obviously MUCH more in touch with what is spiritually correct,") (I looked for a "smiley" hurling chunks but couldn't find one.)

I also have a vague recollection of VPW teaching on Luke1.35( the section of scripture that refers to Jesus as a "thing") and rationalizing the usage of the word "thing" by saying he, Jesus, was technically a *thing* because he had not yet taken his first breath. I wish I could remember where VP taught this but it's been too long ago. Part of the emphasis of that particular teaching was that The Word never contradicts itself. It seems that there were people who had said this passage was an example of contradiction because it used the term*thing* rather than refer to Jesus as a child. As always, there were subliminal implications to much of what Wierwille taught. "Hey!, That's not what I taught. That's what you heard me say and give your own meaning to." (Sounds like a cop-out/loophole to me.)

Gosh! I haven't heard that name since I was in Delaware, Ohio in the mid 1970s. Gene's family owned a tavern there. I wonder if he still has family in Delaware.

Maybe I'm just dreaming this, but didn't VPW say somewhere in piffle that life begins when you take your first breath and ends when you take your last? Hence the term, *breath-life*. I'm not stating this as a form of agreement or disagreement with that line of thought. I am stating this to establish that VPW did, indeed, "teach" that a fetus was not alive until it took its first breath. (Though I don't recall him using the word "fetus".)

Dadgum it! Now I need to figure out who this guy named "Forever" is!

Who is this guy named "Basket"? And, why did you not put a comma in the appropriate place to denote that you were addressing him?

" Too few good things I learned taking PFAL" OOPS! My bad I changed a word Hey! whatta ya know! I learned about that in PFAL!

Well, AnotherSpot---------- It would appear that you had not yet heard Ted F.'s excellent song: There Are Many Roads That Lead To Chicago ;)

A.as I. This stuff sounds so amazingly like the information that was passed down to us in the mid-1970s and pawned off as revelation from Gawd ( Which, it turns out, was gleaned from White Supremacy propaganda by VeePeePee) that one simply has to wonder---------Have you discovered the secret of *Time Travel*?

And all this time I thought an ATHEIST was a hot Italian sports car. Campaign slogan: "Goes like a bat outta he!!" I really need to get out more often. Sigh!

You couldn't write a funnier movie scene than that if you tried!!

A La P--- Gotta LOVE that Joni stuff.The Janiva clip is about a year old.Her hubby, Jeff Turmes, plays bass and 2nd guitar behind Rick Holmstrom.Here's more.

I had to know so I *Giggled* it, thereby disqualifying myself. Geeze!! I just heard this on the radio a week or two ago. Can't believe I missed it. Good tune!

You must have seen the same newscast I did about the woman who was shot last night.

Hmmmm. Sunset pigs.-------Could be talkin' about cops in L.A. Nope----Still drawing a blank.