waysider

When I was involved in the presentation of this class, (mid 70s), it did break down, at various points, into discussion groups. The discussion was focused on the material that had just been covered. It was a bit like Listening With A Porpoise but allowed for genuine conversation. Thank goodness it never broke down into "excellor sessions"!!

Where to start? I'm not big on fast food but today I was short on time and funds so I zipped over to The Golden Arches Of Ronald. They currently have an advertising campaign that involves showing pictures of customers on their carry-out bags. I was taken back at seeing my picture on the bag ( I mean, that's just weird.) Of course, it wasn't really me, just someone who bore a striking resemblance. I showed it to my co-workers and they were amazed.(and amused) "Are you going to show it to you wife?", they asked me. "Take a hike !!", I told them( nudge nudge, wink wink) " Do you really think I want her to see me posing with some other woman?" Anyway, about a year ago, I had the pleasure of spending a day with ChattyKathy and her hubby. Unfortunately, I was so fixated on her red cowboy boots throughout the day, I really have no recollection of what she looked like. Mmmm! I wonder if she still remembers the pink TUTU I was wearing that day.???

I hear ya, Rick, on that numbness thing. I just get numbness without the pain. But, it's in my right hand, not my left.( bad news for a walking style bass player) After about 5 minutes, I could use my right hand to hammer 16 penny spikes and not feel a thing. I had it diagnosed and they said it was carpel T. They wanted to cut me but I balked, not because I fear being cut( been there, done that), but because I disagree with their conclusion. I had some serious trauma to that shoulder about 10 years ago and I really think this is where the problem originates. I do have pain in that shoulder that radiates through my bicep and then dissipates into a numbness as it reaches my hand. The Docs scoffed at my assessment but, hey, it's my body and that's what it tells me. Well, I find the longer I refrain from playing bass, the better it gets. (The short scale Epiphone has helped also.) I also find if I use a really long strap and hold the bass low that it helps. Neither of those are options I particularly like but it makes me glad that I honk away on the harp, also. At least I have that as an outlet. BTW---Hubert Sumlin is headlining "Hot Licks Blues Festival" in Granville this year.(September 15th) Details at columbusblues.com---(events page)

johniam Please pay attention to the context. Rascal was discussing a book she read and drawing a parallel. That's what this thread is about, books we have read or want to read. It's not about refuting the reality of isolationism. There is a * start new topic* button if anyone desires to do that. It's simply not true that TWI encouraged us to read any materials that they did not first approve or recommend. Yes, John, they did encourage reading non-TWI authored books. ( Non-TWI books that they preselected). Even in the PFAL class, VPW challenged us to *put away all secular materials*. Do you not remember that?

Pray for what you need. Let God decide how He wants to respond.

"Thou shalt kindle thy wood with wisdom and patient forbearance lest an impetuous spirit vex thee" Thus it is written in: The Book Of Matches( literally translated:The Book of Enlightenment) Chapter 1 Verse 10

Geeze! That old Beach Boys song just flashed through my head. You know---- "Wooden it be nice if we were married----------"

Break out the Dom Perignon if a "mucky muck" shows up and says something like: I'm sorry!!! Almost forgot---- Any era TWI will suffice.

Just for fun

Man, this is way off topic,but what the heck, the original premise seems to have vanished down the "terlet" anyhow. I thought about bringing up the CF&S thread and putting it there but though it might lose some sense of continuity. So here goes: Does anyone remember how, in CF&S, Wierwille recounted how a "beautiful" (his word) young woman came to him in a state of distress and revealed to him that the source of her distress was the fact that one of her breasts had not developed at the same rate as the other? He proceeded to describe how he then "counseled" her on the importance of inner beauty and assured her that her breasts were perfect because God had made them. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there but it seems kinda creepy to me that he would share details of what I'm sure must have been brought to him in confidence. The ministry was still fairly small at that time and there was a strong likelihood someone hearing this recounting may have know the party he described. (Assuming she really existed.) Like I said, it might have no meaning at all but it always seemed rather odd to me.

Johniam Do you honestly not see something amiss in the scenario you described involving the man who placed a young lady's hand on his genitals and proclaimed his sexual arousal? That's not "healing" John, that's sexual imposition. If you watch the news at all, it should come as no surprise to you that his age is a moot point. As far as comparing CF&S to what goes on in a college classroom or on campus, I just don't see the relevance of drawing a comparison. We are not discussing what goes on at colleges, we are discussing what took place in a TWI sanctioned class. You said all VP wanted to do was address sexual issues -------etc. What exactly were these "sexual issues" he addressed and what was their relevance to "Biblical research"? Just asking.

I stayed in not knowing he was anything OTHER than the things you listed!

Well, one thing I am pretty sure of is that Oldies and Johniam were never in Fellowlaborers. Rascal's description is MUCH closer to the reality that existed there.(Mid 1970s, BTW) There was no time to sit and read books. There was scarcely even time to read the Bible! There was no time for scholastic study of The Word. There was no time to take in a movie unless it was part of the program. When Rocky was released we HAD to go into town on a Saturday night( which should have been considered a rare treat) and watch it so we could pick out "spiritual" principles at work. Yeah, like that made it enjoyable. Sure, Oldies, I know we could have "walked away" any time we wanted to.(even though we were in the middle of Podunk, USA) Maybe we could have hung signs around our necks that said"copped out loser" and gone back to our home towns to announce our unfitness for service to God's people while we were at it, huh? It's obvious to me when someone says "you had the freedom to do this or that" that they could not have been in the same program I was in. They "owned" us 24/7. You didn't go anywhere, do anything, say anything, discuss anything or even consider anything unless they said so. Isolationism was a reality, not some *propaganda* that lives in someone's imagination. (And, that was in the so-called "good old days".) Sorry for the rant. I just get sick of people taking a legitimate topic and derailing it to serve their own agenda which may or may not have a blasted thing to do with the topic at hand. NOW!! Can we get back to discussing "other" Christian books?

I have no idea what the tune is but I wanted to jump in and say that I think Marvin and Tammy were perhaps the best matched duo to ever step before a microphone. Their history together was short but oh, what an impact they made!

by Gary Allen ( I think I might still have a copy) He also wrote " None Dare Call It Treason". BTW I predict that when winter arrives, it will be drastically colder( at least where I live) than it was this summer. Hope that comes to pass-------I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm a false prophet or something.

Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that maybe the LDO part of the poster's handle are just his initials and not a statement of rank. Just tryin' to give the benefit of a doubt here.

How about "Christian Sex And More Sex"?

Hiya, WG Sorry if my post seemed to imply VP's indulgences caused his cancers. Fact is, though, it's no secret that alcohol abuse can do serious and sometimes irreversible damage to the liver. A damaged liver is compromised in its ability to ward off disease. It's still speculation on my part that his lifestyle was a contributory factor in his destiny (though perhaps in a more indirect than direct fashion.) The idea of cancer having a life of its own is contrary to medical science. Cancer is parasitic in nature. If you remove its source of nutrition it will dissipate. A virus, on the other hand, is a whole other ball of wax. It can hide in the shadows for long periods of time until conditions are conducive for it to make an appearance. Following the logic that having a life of its own is equal to devil possession, you would have to conclude that the presence of a cold sore(caused by a virus) is proof of devil spirits being present. -------------------------------------------------------- Here is a little snip from my Advanced Class notes (circa 1973) (hand written, not in the printed text.) Definition: Power Of Attorney---- (Vp quoted this from a book titled Handbook For Everyday Law and added his own "asides".) "There are occasions when the principle, (Jesus Christ), is not available to carry on his business. He may then execute a general Power Of Attorney authorizing an "attorney- in- fact", (born again believer) as his agent to carry on his business for him." Sounds like the beginnings of the absent Christ doctrine from what I see.

The world is a much more savvy place today than it was 30-35 years ago, especially regarding matters like the one we are discussing. If you produced this class(CF&S) today and presented it to the same types of audiences that viewed it back then, you could possibly be charged with *pandering obsenity* and possibly even *contributing to the delinquency of a minor*. It has been stated by one poster that it is his opinion that VPW would not have presented this sort of thing with minors present. And yet, there is testimony that he, in fact, did present similar material to at least one 14 year old. And, this was a "live and in person" event, not a filmed class session. I was a class instructor for this particular class in the 1970s. There was no disclaimer regarding the content. I think I would remember that detail. The first time I ran it, there was a 14 year old girl signed up to take it. I was apprehensive so I consulted with the leadership above me. They gave me a "canned" response to the effect that "What better place to learn these things than in the safety of the household?" Pretty close to the exact words. I did have one couple walk out one time. They were senior citizens and this stuff was off the charts of what they considered acceptable. They came back for the next session after a long meeting with their twig leader. I was not present and don't know what was discussed in their meeting. You know, The Holocaust has been over for more than 60 years. As long as people continue to deny that it happened, there will be those who speak up and proclaim its reality. Why? Well, maybe in doing so, they can help to prevent a recurrence. Do I hate VP Wierwille? No more so than I hate PT Barnum.

For the record: I never said his cancer was caused by syphilis. I said it would not surprise me to find that his delusions of grandeur were symptomatic of late stage syphilis. BTW: Cervical cancer IS caused by a virus that can be transmitted by human contact. Re: cancer is caused by a devil spirit. That teaching was in the Advanced Class. I have it in my silly-bus notes from 1973. It is hand written and denoted with parentheses.(ie: It is a quote from the live class.) The idea of a particular disease having its origins in workings of the Devil was also taught in that same class. factoid#1. Eye cancer is extremely rare. factoid#2. Cataracts are not a disease. They are caused by a disruption of the metabolic process of the lens.

I have worked, for the past several years, with someone who is a lesbian. I think I know her pretty well. There was nothing there that I think she would see as offensive but I'm NOT going to bring her to GSC to verify that. Not because of the lesbian thing, because of the CULT thing! Of course, that's just one person. Still, I don't think anything said was of malicious intent. Heck, one time she asked me to guess a lesbian's favorite beer. I can't directly tell you the answer so I'll have to beat around the Bush.

I've been know to burn jello, so what do I know? But seriously, I remember these things when I was a kid. It seems like they came with an assortment of soft wood pieces . Soft wood burns very rapidly and easily. Maybe a woodburning tool just isn't made to get hot enough for your intentions.

I'd be more inclined to compare him to somebody on "D@teline-- To c@tch @ pred@tor" than anyone of Biblical fame. But maybe that's just me.

"Maybe he just quit believing." What a crock of hooey! The man indulged himself with known carcinogens in a very, very large fashion. Why would anybody be surprised at his destiny? A life of its own? Well, herpes is caused by a virus(which has a life of its own) so maybe that next cold sore one gets is really a debuhl spirt manifesting itself in the senses realm. I suggest that anyone who still struggles with this issue read the article here on GSC that deals with the dilemma of VPW's death. He!!, it wouldn't surprise me to find that his delusions of grandeur were symptomatic of late stage syphilis. Not saying that is the case, just saying it wouldn't surprise me. (given his known track record of promiscuity) For the record, I never knew he died of cancer until I started lurking at Grease Spot. And, I asked many people who should have had the inside scoop.(and probably did.) Why is that? Gee, maybe because that basic piece of info was shrouded in secrecy? The man died as a result of his self-destructive indulgences. *Believing* doesn't have a blasted thing to do with it. "Oh, but he fought the good fight--blah, blah, blah" His body paid the price for the abuses he subjected it to. There is nothing deeply spiritual or philosophical about it. IMO!

Someone said, "Where does it say a prophet can't make a mistake?"( regarding prophesy) Let me see now----Oh yeah, now I remember, it was in the O.T. Of course, the context is talking about a "prophesy" failing to come to pass. Funny, it didn't mention "disclaimers". It's cited in "the class" for anyone industrious enough to dig it out. Was he a teacher, a prophet,-------- a puppet, a pirate, a pawn or a king? Lest we forget, we are using VP's definitions of these things to identify them. How about if we just say he was a *phony* and leave it at that? That way the word *phony* can function as a noun instead of an adjective.