waysider

White Dove As you know, many times a thread will go off on an unrelated tangent and the essence of a previous post may be obscured in the process. This particular post of mine was in regard to a line of thinking that was being discussed about a page back. I should have referenced that before my post. The particular line of thought that was under discussion was whether devil spirits(according to the teachings of The Way) can possess just the body, just the mind, or both. The context of the of the material I referred to( as far as I recall after many, many years) illustrated how both can be involved at the same time and used alcoholism as an example of both being in play at the same time. I hope that clarifies my intent. I'm sorry I did not make that clearer. On the other hand, I do see you point about how even one single word can affect the overall essence or even change a meaning completely.

You are correct; Jesus did not tell me it was gobbledygook. He also didn't tell me it was a '48 Packard or a new way to do the boogaloo. Come to think of it, I don't think he really has a whole lot to say on the subject, one way or another. Look, Oldies, if you don't want Jesus (or a knowledge of his importance to modern Christianity) to be a part of your personal walk, it's really none of my business. That's between you and God. Did you ever stop to think that maybe God is saying to himself. "Criminy, why don't these wayfers just tell me what the heck they want instead of going through this ritual of jibberish?" Do you think He wouldn't understand you if you came to him and expressed your heart in your native language? Give it a try. How can it hurt you?

I'm not usually a Bible quoting kind of guy but here goes: ----------------------------------------------------------------- St. John 14:6 Jesus said unto him(Thomas), I am the way, the truth, and the life: No man comes to the Father except by me. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Doesn't exactly invite you to cut him out of the picture, now, does it? But, Wait!!! What about "the administration" and "to whom" and all that other stuff in PFAL? :wacko:

If it's necessary for you to know, I'm sure you could ask.

Q."How will I know which one of the two(God or Jesus) I'm addressing?" A. As long as they know (and I'm quite certain they do), why would that even matter?

I believe that fear of "communing with a devil spirit" had its origins in a premise that was being expounded throughout TWI in the early 1970s. The premise, generally stated, was that there was actually a devil spirit named Jesus and it was possible you were really talking to him. We were told (don't remember by whom) not to talk to Jesus for this reason. This has been discussed here at GSC previously. Geeze!--- It's amazing how bizarre this stuff all seems, in retrospect!

Adding to the "Did they really believe it?" thread. Here's some more debuhl spirt stuff from the AC class. (From my notes relating to Pgs. 20 and 21 for those who really MUST know.) Some of the spirits that affect the mind are, spirit of obsession(seen in people who can't control their temper),sordid spirit(uses filthy, foul language), spirit of oppression( has feelings of being persecuted), sensual spirit(has lust for money, sex and anything beyond needs) Spirit that may affect both body AND mind: (Drumroll, please)---------------spirit of leviathan(alcoholism and addiction.) Maybe this thread should be called "Did we really believe it?". <_<

HeeHee---HeeHee You said dasn't! In my whole life, I have NEVER heard anyone except my Grandmother, say dasn't HeeHee---HeeHee Sorry---What were we talking about?

Oldies First let me say that I am not trying to make this a personal issue. TWI taught us precious little from and about the Gospels. If you want to learn about Jesus, you simply can not ignore the Gospels. This would be true even if your motives were purely academic or historic. The closest we got to even thinking about Jesus(not *Christ*) was when we sang songs out of the blue book. Wierwille made a big deal out of emphasizing that we must always refer to him(Jesus Christ) as Christ and not Jesus because the power is in the resurrection not the suffering. That line of thinking was the springboard for the teaching from which I quoted a paraphrase several posts ago. *Emphasize the post-resurrected Christ and minimize the pre-resurrection Jesus*. That is what Wierwille exhorted us to do. Not once, but over and over and over again. In my opinion, I think that deprives an individual of understanding this man called Jesus. How can you have a relationship with someone you don't even know?

Two questions, Oldies. 1. What is the source of that statistic? 2.When you refer to "The Word of God", are you referring specifically to "The Bible"? ( according to PFAL, "The Bible" is "The Word of God" when it is "rightly divided".----session #2/ The God Breathed Word.)

Perhaps we could reverse that question to make it "What WAS taught in TWI beyond the obvious Christ aspect of his life?" And again, I would like to see an example of this "propaganda" you referred to. Excellent point Dooj-----So much of what God has to say to us has little or nothing to do with what's confined to words in books. edited for typo.

Session #3 of PFAL (The Integrity Of The Word) has a section called "Listening With A Purpose", as do all the other sessions. Question #3 poses the question, "How do we stand approved before God?" Please note that it does not ask "What are the various options by which we may stand approved?". The correct answer that was given in the instructors syllabus is, "Study(The Word) in order to rightly divide The Word." I dare say, a good portion of the World's population throughout time were excluded from God's approval due to their inability to read written language [bIF][/b], in fact, question #3 and its subsequent answer are accurate.

No problem. Always willing to point out the inconsistencies in PFAL. BTW--- Where is this propaganda you refer to about Wierwille not teaching "the immense greatness of Christ"? Or, are you referring to the fact that he taught very little about Jesus and our relationship with him?

I have never been there myself but I know someone who attends every year. It's not nearly as innocuous (or communal) as it sounds.

Here's something else that VPW taught in PFAL that I'm certain others besides myself remember. (paraphrased)-------"When Christ returns, he's coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He's coming back as Lord God Almighty!!!!" The official word we class instructors got was to put a spin on it and explain that he was just wrapped up in the emotion of the moment. I'm pretty sure *retakes* and *editing* were not unheard of in 1967. <_< And to think that I was once reprooved for saying "We are AFFILIATED with The Way(Int.)" instead of saying "We ARE The Way(Int.)

Yeah, You're right. I probably have the years mixed up. They kinda all flow together after awhile. Don't know why. It was only 30+ years ago--HeeHee I do remember one big time arse chewin' I got once in my year #3. Seems it was a Saturday morning and we were all supposed to be cleaning houses. My new bride and I decided to slip away and spend some * quiet time* together. Don't know who ratted us out but I was summoned to limb HQ (Right Now!) without a clue of what it was about. (30-40 minute drive for those who are unfamiliar with the area.) J.M. threatened to toss me(not my bride) out on my ear if I didn't bow down to him., in a figurative sense, for the rest of the year. I only buckled because I knew how important it was to her to graduate. My attitude was never the same after that. I don't think he would have thrown her out anyway as he seemed to be quite fond of her. ( Know what I mean , Vern?) Yawn---G'night ,Maw, G'nigh, Paw, G'night, 'Short Stuff, G'night John Boy.

Stevie Wonder had a big hit with a song called Uptight.Bill Cosby redid it with some spoken words over the top of the music and called itThe Little Old Man.That's me---The Little Old Man

Block the *caller ID*

The basic (scholastic) reason TWI teachings so adamantly promoted the anti-trinitarian line of thought was because of the O.T. reference stating,"Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." ---------IMO--------- Now, you could easily get wrapped up in a discussion of the word "before" , etc., etc. Not my cup of tea. My beliefs about The Trinity are relevant only to me. My beef is with this statement: " If son of God means or equals God the son, then language and words are useless as a tool of communication." ---------VPW---------- Forget about the topic at hand; this statement is jibberish. It sounds very noble----- but---- it really means nothing. How many other catchy phrases are/were there in PFAL(and TWI) that really don't/didn't have any actual meaning in and of themselves? These phrases were designed to evoke a response that was based on emotion, not logic and reason. ( Don't forget----When Eve stopped to *consider*, it marked the beginning of the end for her utopia.) Sarcasm intended. --------IMO-----

I remember r0tch w. from Fellowlaborers. He and his wife P@!$y were FL3/staff. He was in charge of prison outreach and she was in charge of children's fellowship for Ohio and worked on the food co-op(Manna) He was also a twig leader in FLO.(night twig) I can understand how he could physically intimidate someone. Yep---shore do. Most of us had to go straight from morning fellowship (5:30 am) to our mile run, on to breakfast with the house, and then to our day jobs. From our day jobs we went straight to limb hq for dinner and then to evening work detail before going on to night twig (approx. start time 10:00 pm)-----Lights out! at midnight. But not r0tch.-----no,no,no. When HE got off work, he was allowed to go home and lift weights or spend time with his wife until dinner. A lot of us were envious of the free time he was afforded. It would have been nice just to have an hour or two to do something selfish like read The Word, (let alone lift weights or spend time with your spouse.) FL1, 2 and 3 may have good memories of FLO night(Wed.), but for FL4, 5 and 6 it was a night to dread. It was pretty much a 3 hour group *face melt* every week. We used to file in to take our seats and say to each other, "I wonder what we'll find out we screwed up THIS week?" And then there was the time we were confined to the BRC in a weekend lockdown that was designed to break our spirits. That was a 2&1/2 day*face melt*! Of course, the term * face melt* was not actually in usage yet at that time.

I used to get that one, also, though not for a couple of years. They are trying to get your credit card number. You can star 69 (*69) to get the last incoming number to your phone unless they have it blocked. (And they probably will) It will cost you a small fee. You can then report it to authorities if you so choose. BTW---(866) is a toll free area code.

What, in heaven's name, does that have to do with considering whether or not the phrase in question is semantically sound?

Even if they do, how does that render words and language useless as tools of communication?

That's a catchy phrase, alright, except it really makes no sense when you break it down. Where does the Bible say,"The son of God is God the son?" And, if, in fact, it does, why would that make language and words useless as a form of communication?

Cindy Not sure what you are looking for here. Are you looking for someone to write, perform, record or what? Also, what sort of timeline are you dealing with?