waysider

I hear ya, Mr. "ham" Radio I was spared a lot of the really sucky stuff myself. Personally, I think I got off the hook easier than many because of the timing of my involvement. Still, whether it was 6 months or 6 years or 16 years, it was wrong. I think the thing I feel the worst about is that, after I left, people who I had brought in stayed and had to endure this junk. I have apologized to my parents, whom I brought into The Way, many times. They always smile and say that at least they made a lot of really good friends. And, in fact, that is actually true in their case. I'm not sure what that has to do with Holocaust denial but it seemed to fit the conversation somehow.

Deja Rue Didn't I cook this once before?

Teresa James

With the rapidly approaching geriatric status of many top Waysters, perhaps an appropriate addition to the "blue book" might be: What A Fellow's Hip.

"When did the deception start?" What year was he born?

The logic in that baffles me. Wierwille promoted and encouraged the reading and study of materials that were clearly anti-Semitic. Do we really need to list the books again? But since he did not advocate removal of Jews from the organization, that somehow negates the effects that were rendered on the readers of those materials? I'm not at all perturbed, as you suggested, just puzzled at the length some people will go to in denying the reality of what happened in the so-called "good old days". BTW--- I spent three years of my life in a program that was clearly an exercise in socialist living. This was at a time when Wierwille was clearly at the reins of the organization. Either he was totally unaware of how this program was being conducted or he viewed the socialist lifestyle as a valid option for Christian living. Either way, I don't think that sheds a positive light on his awareness or political tendencies.

Oldies You might want to stick to your assertion that VeePee was a swell fella and could do no wrong. At least you have proven to us you really believe that much. If you still insist on maintaining your "knight in shining armor" image of Wierwille, it's really no skin off of my nose. Please don't suggest, however, that he never publically taught that we(TWI believers ) were the chosen ones and had replaced the Jews as God's people. That would be a form of "denial" that really doesn't "appeal" to the thousands who heard him do so. (Myself being one of those thousands.) I like ya, brother, but the coffee is brewing. Can you smell it?

The expression saints and sinners alike is simply a catch phrase that has been used for centuries to signify "all inclusive". It means the same thing as anyone and everyone. Surely if Wierwille was anywhere near as well read as he claimed to be, he must have encountered this phrase many times, especially since it is used in religious oriented writings more than secular writings.

My second or third year in Fellowlaborers, there was a guy who was a fan of Starsky and Hutch. His daytime job was in "the big city". One day, the two guys from the show were in town to make an appearance on the local news as a promo. At dinner, that night, he stood at announcements to say he had met them and began to relive the event. Everyone knew he was a jokester and clearly headed for some sort of funny punch-line but before he could deliver it, the limb leader cut him off and pumped him for verifiable proof. He had none, of course, because it was all part of a joke. The limb leader then proceeded to force him to apologize to all those present (50+) and submit himself to a public belittlement for deceiving "God's people". The next day, he and his wife were conspicuously absent from morning fellowship. They had been "tossed" from the program for his "lack of spiritual maturity". They(TWI) might have been good at serving millet 50 different ways, but they didn't know "jack" about good old fashioned practical jokes.

Hey Kids!!! Good News! It seems that recent developments have revealed that the whole "Way Cult" thing was actually an elaborate hoax. Yep, some prankster slipped some sort of psychedelic cosmic mold spores into our familia while we were preoccupied with putting big HS's and small hs's into our Bibles. The whole time we thought we were scrubbing toilets for Jesus and having BM's(ummm, that's short for Believer's Meetings.), we were actually sitting at the campfire, holding hands, making s'mores and singing Kumbaya. HaHa--- I drove by the old "HQ" property not long ago and discovered that it was never really there. There is nothing there but cornfields that have obviously been cultivated there for eons. Remember Tom Wolfe's Electric Acid Kool Aid Test? I guess what happened to us musta been kinda like the Psychedelic Cosmic Mold Spores Familia Test HeeHeeHee---I feel so silly in retrospect. Hmmmmm. I didn't really post this. (Or did I?)

Iris DeMentSweet Is The Melody

I wholeheartedly agree. That was a large part of the point I was trying to make. Admittedly, I should have made it clearer that the neighborhood I grew up in was not Jewish. In fact, many of these people I referred to were Eastern Orthodox and Russian Orthodox, not Jewish. Sorry I did not make that clearer.

Re: Sunesis' link referencing "The Bitch Of Buchenwald" I'm no expert on Jewish law, but it is my understanding that a Jewish person( at least at that period of time) would never voluntarily tattoo himself as it is a violation of Jewish law. This is why it was so disgraceful for a prisoner to have to be subjected to the "numbering" tattoos. They were like cattle bing branded, in the eyes of the camp administrators, but the severity of the issue was much deeper and complex for those being tattooed. The conclusion I deduce from this evidence is that these camps did not inter Jewish people only. Use that to adjust the numbers if it makes any difference. To me, it does not. Growing up, I knew kids whose parents and grandparents had spent time in these camps. And yes, I met many of them personally, though i can tell you they did NOT openly discuss what they had endured. Some had "abbreviated" families.( Is that a nice enough way to say they had lost family members?) Saying this part of history has been fabricated, is to say that my memories of childhood are all an illusion. That much, at least, I really can't buy.

Yep I remember all the hand gestures. I especially liked the part where "the lady was inside". That's the part where you rub your belly like you're full. If you closed your eyes and concentrated real hard, you could imagine that the bowl of "swill deluxe with flax seeds" you had just eaten, had satisfied your hunger just like the lady had done for the croc. 50 grown men and women singing kid's songs after dinner in the BRC. Wish I had a video of it. (except cam-corders hadn't been invented yet.) It would probably win hands down on that wackiest videos show.

More Gary with Nick Curran on guitar. Austin,TX.---3/2007

Tell him to be careful with the studio lights. Wierwille's already got the martyr thing covered.

I never knew it to be available to the general public. It was used for "Public Ex's". The video was directed by Bud Morgan from "Wide World Of Sports". Don't know if that helps any.

Gary Primich passed away on 9/23/2007.RIP Gary.

You have been using a Bible that is devoid of dechomai and lambano?? Gasp!! Say it isn't so!

Me three.

Perhaps the morning festivities could start with an old fashioned "hill-side sing". First, let us begin with "I'll Be Seeing You In Old Familia Places". Hit it Dorothy!

That was a hu11uva place to send ANYBODY!

I can't tell you what they put in it at HQ, but I can tell you what we put in it in Fellowlaborers. (As if you really wanted to know ) Anyhoo----The Way promoting forgiveness has all the credibility of a guy telling his "kids" to quite smoking while he puffs incessantly on a Kool "shorty".

You're a good man. Charlie Brown---I don't care what Lucy says.

Not to be too contrary, but it was Wierwille, himself, who said, "---works for saint and sinner alike." I suppose you could get wrapped up in what was meant by "saint" and what was meant by "sinner" but I think it's pretty obvious he meant it would work for "anybody" who used it. As White Dove pointed out, from a non-Christian point of view, it("believing") does not fit the criteria necessary to qualify as a bona fide "law". And then, too, there is that blasted word "alike" which means that not only does it work for both saint and sinner but it works the same way! I have to conclude, at least for myself, that the statement, although it sounds quite noble, is not accurate.