waysider

I remember hearing people say this but I don't recall it ever being taught. I think the first time I heard someone say this was in about 1974. (I was not in the Corps and therefore this is second hand.) Wierwille gave an order that the Corps was not to leave the grounds one weekend. One of the men left anyway and went into town. He died as a result of a car accident that night. The buzz that went around was that Wierwille had received revelation about the accident and that is why he had given that directive. People used it to play up the hedge of protection thing as well as the manner in which he died. Another time I heard it was when two women and some children died in a terrible car wreck after leaving The Rock of Ages. (I only know one woman's name. I don't know whose children they were.) There was talk that followed along the lines of what has been stated here. Another time was when Lester G. became acutely ill and died. The talk was that he died this way because he couldn't believe and his lack of believing was a sign of being out of fellowship. There are probably more that I could think of. The point is, though, that I never actually heard this formally taught. That doesn't mean it wasn't but I never heard it(as far as I recall) My condolences go out to you, A la p.

Hello, Roy No, nothing quite that deep in my question. I was just asking TG if he/she has had a chance to peek into some of the other rooms here besides the forums. I really like that concept of "perfect" prayer being prayer that is selfless in motivation.

I never understood the big deal with Dr. Who having two hearts. I mean, we used to follow a guy who didn't have any heart AT ALL!

Very cool!!

Yes the doors were locked and someone stood post at them. I don't think it was ever stated that they were standing guard but that was the impression it gave. I suppose someone might come along now and say something like," Golly, you could have just left if you didn't like it." But where were you supposed to go? We lived in a commune for gosh sakes! In the middle of Nowhere, USA. Most people's hometowns were hundreds and even thousands of miles away. And it was made very clear that leaving would be the same as declaring yourself a failure and any hopes you had of becoming a leader would be null and void from that moment on. You know, most people had already "burned their bridges" and had no job prospects awaiting them "back home", very little money and, for the most part, most of us didn't even have cars that could make any kind of lengthy trip. It would have been a total disgrace to walk away.(and a financial challenge.) And even if it crossed your mind to try that, how could you be sure you weren't the one who was wrong? It seems so easy to see the answer when looking at it 30 years later but it was very confusing at the time it was happening. Edit: Sorry this is out of synch with DWBH's post. I didn't know he was posting at the same time.

Here's the turtle.(Couldn't find the goldfish or seahorse.) http://www.onlinesciencemall.com/Shop/Cont...sid/0/SFV/30852

Hi, Roy That's certainly an interesting take on "perfect" prayer, that it's the essence that is to be perfect, not the technique. Even if it proved to be non-scriptural, it would still be profoundly wise advise. Holy hugs, Bro. Welcome, TG Have you perused some of the articles and such?

Was it Rod Serling that used that opening? * * * * * * "Gosh, Mrs. Cleaver, that sure is a lovely dress you're wearing." <_< Eddie, "Beaver", and Wally

Just for fun

Hmmm. Are you sure it wasn't a jelly-"baby"? EXTERMINATE!------EXTERMINATE!

Hi, WG There were actually two of these events.(That I remember) One, as you say, was "off-site" and a one day event. I think this may be the one you remember. I believe you are correct about the handcuffing also. I think there might have also been something with a blindfold, but I'm fuzzy on that part. It was pretty vicious. No, I take that back, it was sadistic. I don't recall the name of the guy you are referring to but, I too, can picture him as well as his wife. The purpose of it, in my opinion, was to break you of your individualism and make you a team member. (esprit de corps) The other one was an event where we were locked inside the BRC after Friday night supper(unannounced) and then put through a weekend long breaking session. I suppose it was somewhat similar to the accounts I've heard about deprogramming. This one was REAL bad. Doors were locked except at break. You were warned that if you left at break(as if you could just walk away in the middle of Podunk, USA) you would be toast, spiritually if not physically. You would not be welcome anywhere in the entire state or anywhere for that matter. This one might have been during the year I went back in for a third year.(After you graduated.) One of our FLO sisters had what I now realize was a nervous breakdown. I know that's not the correct medical term but I think it best conveys what happened. Not sure at which one of these it took place. I can definitely understand why Mr. Garden may have blocked this memory. I was one of the ones who was dressed down and blasted for insubordination just because I used the phrase "I think". It was nasty. Special note for those who wax nostalgic for "the good old days". This was in the mid 1970s. edited---Just remembered that third one where we got called out to limb in the middle of the night and were told the program was canceled. Then, at AM fellowship, we were given a second chance if we agreed to obey leadership implicitly.

C4 is quite effective, also. Doesn't leave much nest, though, or a place to display it.

I didn't know VP personally. I only met him a few times. Each time he was cold and aloof. He seemed to be "full of himself". (Stories about these but maybe some other time.) I don't think my respect was for him so much as it was for the office he supposedly held. He was never my idol. He was, though, someone I looked to in expectation that he would set an example for me to follow. Glad I never did.(Follow his example)

Hmmmm. Is it obscene because it is showing or because you can see it? Just funnin' with ya.

Hi there, hmh Welcome to GSC. "Time in" is really irrelevant. If they affected your life, you belong here.

Forget for a moment that we are talking about Wierwille here. Suppose you read or heard on the news that there was a guy in, let's say Nebraska or New Jersey, who was running a cheerleader summer camp as a pretense for such activities. Would you be inclined to say,"Oh, he was trying to 'loosen them up' so they could perform their cheers better."? Geeze Louise!---The guy committed premeditated sexual predation. Most rational thinking people would be embarrassed to admit they knew him and rode around on a motorcycle with him, much less come to his defense when the evidence appeared so damning. Is there really any legal difference here between a guy who does this as part of a secular activity and one who does it as part of a religious activity? Please note that I have removed the "spiritual" aspect from the question. The man has been dead for 20 years and yet he is still spiritually raping those who pledge their allegiance to him and blindly defend his "ministry". I don't feel anger toward these guys. I feel sympathy. They have been slipped a "mickey" and don't even realize it.

Unless I'm mistaken, that's Charles Brown. Either Johnny or Oscar Moore on guitar(Maybe both.) Don't remember the bass players name. Williams, I think, was his last name. I think he had a whole album of "road" songs. Was this one part of it? Interesting guy, Charles Brown. Before his musical career took off, he was a pharmacist. edited to note that Charles Brown was the guy who wrote Merry Christmas, Baby, Driftin' Blues and Stepped in Quicksand

It was definately a "synch" job. But that was pretty much accepted back then. These guys were from the East-Side of Cleveland. (I am from the West-Side.) Clevelanders identify themselves as either East or West-siders. It's mostly about which side of the Cuyahoga River Valley you are on. You may also remember Sonny as the lead singer for Climax, who had a big hit with Precious And Few. I just figured I would give the next one to Tom since he seemed to know the answer. (As long as there are no objections)

I think Tom has it.Time Wont Let Me ---The Outsiders (ft. Sonny Geraci)

"Kick the Can" and "Stickball". Hmmmm. Maybe it was a Cleveland thing. :)

Can't you see I've waited too long? To love you To hold you in my arms?

I can't wait forever Even though you want me to I can't wait forever Just to know if you'll be true.

Rick Last I heard, D.B. was in the Cols. area(Dublin or Hilliard, don't recall) and ran a fellowship. I think it might be an offshoot or derivative of an offshoot. I ran the class he was in when I was a FLO.(please don't hate me ) Don't know if that helps.

Re: the auditorium Now remember, we must always call it by its full name, "The Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille Auditorium" (or something like that) and never "The VPW Auditorium". <_< My memory is fuzzy on this, but didn't VPW insist, at one point during early construction phases, that the rebar in one particular section had to be stainless steel (instead of regular steel that normal humans would use) because God gave him revelation to that effect? If I recall correctly, a portion of the construction had to be torn out and redone to correct that matter. We had a special offering at the twig I attended, several weeks in a row, to help defray the costs of the corrections. One of my great regrets in life is that I had a "crap-o" job at the time and wasn't able to contribute huge amounts to such a worthwhile project. I could be wrong in my recollection.

Could that be: Living In The City----Stevie Wonder?