waysider

I could read all kinds of books on childbirth, take classes, even witness and assist in the actual process. But, as a man, I can never REALLY understand what a woman goes through, not just physically but emotionally as well. So it is with cults. People can read books and learn a great deal about cults and how they work, but if they have never been "trapped under the ice", searching for a passageway to freedom, there is still a certain element that will evade their understanding.

What would you do if I sang out of tune?

Jumpin' Jack Flash-------------Rolling Stones

The Raspberries-----Cleveland Rocked!!

The Choir---------1967

Cleveland's own----Eric Carmen

I knew Paul back when we were both "young 'uns" in The Word. One of the first things I did when I got here was look through the memorials. I was both shocked and saddened to learn of his passing. Yeah, I know that's off-topic. Sorry for the derail.

Hi, Waykid I don't know what it was like to be a Way kid but maybe your posts will help me understand. Welcome to GSC

Hi, OK C Stumbling into this place is kinda like being a kid and finding out where babies come from. There is a special forum where you can post the names of people you are trying to locate. There are some "tutorials" for new arrivals, as well, that I highly recommend. I'm glad you are here and hope you find the service to your liking. waysider

The Way isn't and never was a "research" ministry, despite the billing it was given by VPW. Wierwille plagiarized almost everything he presented as having come to him directly from God. (Right down to the PLAF class and Holy Spirit book.) For further clarification of that statement, please refer to the "actual errors" and "doctrinal errors" articles as well as many other references that can be found here using the search function. So then what WAS The Way? It was a cleverly constructed multi-level-marketing scheme that used The Bible (and us) as a veneer of holiness to entice prospective customers. Yes, I know that sounds cold. Wierwille amassed a small personal fortune at the expense of sincere, dedicated followers. (Real estate, classic cars, vintage motorcycles, a private jet, a motorcoach, etc.) He lived "rent free" and had his own entourage of people who were actually willing to pay for the "honor" of being his personal servants. He "allegedly" drugged and raped many, many female followers and then tossed them aside when he was finished with them. He "allegedly" destroyed those who stood in his way whenever it was possible for him to do so. No------The Way was never a "research" ministry. It was a business designed to profit the man behind the curtain, VPW. IMO

The Moon is made of green cheese!! HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!

Re: The Mann Act of 1910 http://wise.fau.edu/~tunick/courses/conlaw/mann.html

Love Hurts------Phil & Don

Oldies Since you've chosen that road to traverse I suppose I'll go along for the ride. In 1975, I was sent to a rural area to run classes.(PLAF/TIP/CF&S,ETC.) The majority of the students were dairy farmers. I don't know what knowledge you have of farm animals so I'll just come out and tell you, cows don't wear watches. The first couple of sessions, there were students who arrived a few minutes late. Not only that, they were wearing work clothes. It made perfect sense to me that the situation would have to be modified to accommodate their unique needs. HQ did not agree. Ironic, I think, given the farming background that permeated the lives of those at HQ. They said that students must be in their seats, wearing "respectful" clothes before the classes began. If they could not comply, they would be expelled from the class and their money would NOT be refunded. I tried as best I could to follow those guide lines. People hated me for it. I fudged. Not because it made me unpopular but because it just made sense. I learned that it's best not to be too honest with HQ. I apologize here and now to those who had to endure that silliness all those years ago. Legalism? It's been there as long as I can remember. It's not about when it started in the ministry as an organization, it's about when it started in your personal walk as it was imposed upon you.

To me, "legalism" is a one way street. It's not about what you expected of them. It's about what they expected from you. For me, it came fairly early because they didn't have many people my age to choose from in my geographic area. I think it's really more about when it started to affect an individual than when the organization itself became "legalistic". In other words, I saw it within months of taking the PLAF class(1972) but the person who sat right next to me in class might not have seen it until a couple years later because it was not imposed on them when it was imposed on me. Still, I think it was there all along waiting in the wings to make its entrance into any one individual's "walk".

Ya know If you added up all the hours the posters here have spent reading the Bible, doing word studies, taking class after class after class and generally squeezing Greek words until they turn blue, it would probably total somewhere in the gazillions. Is it possible we have missed that golden kernel of TRUTH that we pursued so diligently? Yes, it is possible. But, speaking only for myself, I would have to say "I don't think so." Why? Because I don't really believe there is some magical, mystical, "end-all" piece of wisdom waiting to be discovered. Wierwille used this elusive method like a carrot on a stick to keep us coming back for more----and more--- and more. VP was quite fond of using thinly cloaked sarcasm to belittle anyone who disagreed with him. Even as early as the PLAF class you can see evidence of this. Remember the part where he teaches about "apatheia"? (I have to paraphrase some of this stuff because it's been over 35 years since I first took the class.) He talks about how a man hears "The Word" but still chooses not to believe. "If a man chooses to be STUPID!", he says, "let him be STUPID!" Of course, what he is really implying is that if you disagree with what he is saying, "you are STUPID!" Now, you don't really want to be STUPID!, do you? For me, it is really quite simple. I believe God was telling the TRUTH when he told us He is light and that there is no darkness at all in Him. I believe He was telling the TRUTH when He declared Himself to be "love". I DON'T believe He causes misery and suffering to befall our lives, though I think it pleases Him to see us learn valuable lessons from bad situations. I'm content to try to treat my fellow man with kindness, respect and fairness. I try to glean some knowledge and wisdom from the curve balls that life hurls my way. Beyond that, it's just an exercise in philosophy as far as I'm concerned. But, hey, maybe that's just me.

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Here's one for drummerboy.

If that doesn't make your mouth water, your taste buds might be dead!

This whole conversation kinda reminds me of selling PLAF witnessing.

She's 19 Years Old--------Muddy Waters

"God is love." How much simpler can it get?

Thanks, everyone, for the interesting replies. -------------------------------------------------- Before we begin to drift too far away from the topic at hand, allow me to restate the essence of this thread. "As a direct result of utilizing "the law of believing"--------- This happened to me." If at all possible please articulate on the correlation between the operation of "believing" and the actual event. ---------------------------------------------------------- Keep 'em comin'!

Covenant Of Salt Hmmmm.--------------Isn't that the one you can never break? Yep, done that one twice. Just kiddin' with you. I wish you all the best.

I don't really think it's a matter of "when" the organization itself became legalistic. (My own opinion is that it was legalistic from day #1.) I think it is a matter of "when did they stop cutting you slack as a "babe" and start to require that you put the welfare of the organization above your own?" For some that happened rather quickly. I was made a twig leader within months of first being "witnessed to" (Due largely, I believe, to the fact that I was an adult with a job, apartment and a car, in an area that was predominantly high school students.) I went from being a long-haired, blue jean clad, guitar toting hippie to a clean cut, suit and tie wearing, briefcase toting salesman twig leader within months. I guess they figured my "gestation" period could be abbreviated because of my age. This was in the early 1970s. My introduction to legalism came relatively early in my involvement. By the time I got to fellow laborers in 1975, I was expected to tow the line of "legalism". I will concur with Watered Garden that our first year in FLO was really more a matter of a strictly disciplined lifestyle than an exercise in legalism. After that, though, you had to walk the line or else! Or Else means you could be rousted from bed in the wee hours of the morning and told to clear the state line before the day was over. (That really allegedly happened more than once.)