waysider

Hmmmmm. Let's see if I got this right. Go to bed at midnight(exhausted). Get back up at 5AM and start all over again. (So that's 5 hrs. of sleep, providing you zonk out as soon as your head hits the pillow.) Yep, I can see where that would offset possible sleep deprivation-----NOT!!!

Fellow Laborers was a 2 year "training program" located at/near the limb hq. The limb leader was the MOG(man of God) who oversaw the program. I'll have to see if I can find some info on it on some of the threads.

Howdy, Bingo Glad things are lookin' up.

Hi, OCW Hit your "enter" key when you want to drop down a line. If, on the other hand, you find you want to drop UP a line, your computer might be upside down!!!

HaHaHa! The title really caught my eye. In Fellow Laborers we always had to be in bed by midnight. The lights had to be out and there was no talking allowed. What happened if you violated the rule? Well, there was always the chance you could get kicked out of the program. Almost nobody had a TV. (or phone, for that matter.) It wouldn't have mattered anyway because they kept us busy from 5:00 AM until midnight. We had to work at secular jobs 40 hrs./wk. I remember people at work talking about this "hot" new show called "Saturday Night Live". I felt like kind of a ninny because I had no way to watch it so I could be part of the conversation. Our only real tie with the outside world was listening to the car radio as we traveled. (not many selections back in 1975.) I'm still at a loss when music from that period comes up in the conversation. I guess one of the first things I bought that was for ME was a car with a half way decent radio.

i'm only against priests who molest anybody. and those who think it's okay

HAHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Hiya, Chuck!!! This bunch NEVER gets tired of yakkin' about stuff like this! My Mom, who is a wonderful woman of God, as well as an all around great lady, used to have a twig fellowship back in the day. She never knew a bunch of Greek words or theological intricacies. She knew a WHOLE BUNCH about God's love, though. Her motto, if you will, was, and still is, that God loves you for who you are right now, warts and all. Not for what you used to be, not for what you could be. but just the way you are at this moment. Is there such a thing as "the seed of the Devil", from which there is no path of escape/ I don't personally believe so. I just haven't seen enough Biblical documentation to verify this. Now, about the "herbal" indulgence. I know The Way taught that any kind of "pharmacia" was an invitation to devil spirit possession. Again, I no longer subscribe to that line of thinking. Don't get me wrong. I don't endorse such activity. For one thing, it is definitely not good for your pulmonary functions. And, as we're all getting older, we need to think about stuff like that. Secondly(and this is a biggie) it can get you into all kinds of legal hot water that can have a very adverse effect on your lifestyle. But is it some kind of devilish, amoral, horrific activity that will lead to your ultimate damnation? I don't think so. But that's just me and my 2 cents.

Chuck Stop beating yourself up, brother. In my opinion(and that's all it is) we have two concepts in play here. 1. We were taught in PLAF(misspelling intentional) that to even question "the integrity of The Word"( whatever the heck that actually means) is the first step in our downward spiral. That is from session #7. It's a control mechanism, plain and simple. There is no Biblical basis for that concept. VPW said "Thus it is so" and we believed him. Shame on us. me. God made us. He expects us to question things, doubt things, try to prove things, etc., etc. That is part of the way He made us. 2. The concept of a sin that is so heinous that commission of it would doom us for eternity. (another control mechanism.) Where is this actually found in the Bible? Again, I'm not qualified as a scholar, by any stretch of the word, but I have never been able to find this in my attempts to locate it. In fact,there is never any mention made of people going to "hell" in the Bible. I'm going to go out on a limb here and make some harsh statements. TWI was a cult and a scam. VPW was a calculating con-man. You got fooled. I got fooled. We all got fooled. Yes, I know it hurts to come to that realization. And yet, it's comforting to realize it wasn't your fault for acting out of benevolence. God does not blame you for the misdeeds of the TWI hierarchy. If it is important enough for you to even ponder these questions, it speaks volumes about the concern you have to do the right (or Godly, if you prefer) thing.

Hi, Chuck! First, allow me to extend my welcome to the GSC. Glad you are here. The questions you are asking are, indeed, excellent ones. Many here have pondered and discussed these questions in great detail. For starters, allow me to first say that, in my opinion, TWI(The Way International) was way off-base on this seed of Satan thinking. Someone told a good friend of mine that he was born of the wrong seed and he killed himself. He was an out-patient at a psychiatric hospital and was in a fragile state of mind at the time. Of course, then they said he killed himself because he had a spirit of suicide. He was just a mixed up kid who needed some guidance and love but instead lost his life. Where's the love of God in that? I don't think this seed of the Devil thing is even Biblical other than the reference cited in the Gospels. I could be wrong about that part. I'm definitely not a Biblical scholar. If the Bible is true, then it's God's desire for us to love our fellow man, treat him with respect and fairness and do what we can to help those in need. If we can squeeze all of that into one short lifetime, I think we're doing pretty darn good!! Peace waysider

The show must go on!!(4:30)

I find I must agree with Skyrider. Corps sponsorship did not pay for the "product", it paid for the lifestyle of a select handful of upper management members. I was never in the Corps, but I did graduate from Fellow Laborers and sponsored various Corps members. I can tell you this, the limb headquarters did not maintain itself. FL cut the grass, they cleaned the toilets, they "painted and patched" ----and on and on and on. We, the FL, produced the "product" which was a facility that represented our state as a regional hub for the entire state. That limb HQ, and its illusionary facade, was the real product that we were manufacturing. It was "paid for" by our voluntary efforts, though voluntary might just be too soft a word as we actually paid for the privilege to be there. If Corps sponsorship was supposed to be paying for what the Corps received in exchange, I would have to conclude that the monetary investment was very one-sided.

Hi, Twinky I've had lots of feral and wild cats over the years. The two we have currently are from a colony that had been living in the woods for many generations so I guess they are more wild then feral. We've had this particular pair(sisters from the same litter) about 11 years now. When we first got them, they were about 3 months old. They wanted nothing to do with humans and would hide in the most unlikely places, motionless, for hours on end. They were totally nocturnal at that time. They completely shunned us for the better part of 2 years even though we keep them inside. But now, it seems like we can't go anywhere in the house without at least one of them tagging along.(Provided their are not snoozing) They have become quite affectionate. Even today, if we have company over, they hide completely out of sight until the coast is clear. This even includes people who have been to our house countless times since we got them. The only exception is my buddy, DialThis, who ironically has a cat of his own. Hence, I'm not sure they sense another cat's scent as a threat. You really can't dictate a timetable to their acclimation. It's good to have a food dish and water dish for each cat. They will not use one exclusively but it saves fighting( and, Lord, can they fight!) if they both decide to eat at the same time. Some wacky facts. Wild cats don't know how to "meow". It's a learned behavior. Ours only made a chirping sort of noise for about 2 or 3 years. They also don't know they are supposed to eat their prey once they have captured it. They learn how to hunt and what to do with their quarry from their mother. Ours were already taught by the time we got them. Hang in there. It may take time but the rewards are worth it.

Well, Twinky is posting from "the other side of the pond". Maybe a CV is viewed from a different perspective in that corner of the world.

Perhaps the greatest myth that has persisted is that he was the MOGFODAT.

Suppose for a moment that VP really had this experience. If so, is it possible he was supposed to notice(first and foremost) that the sky was pitch black and not that it was snowing? I mean, he based the meaning of this event on his own interpretation. ------Food for thought------- Furthermore, he supposedly initiated the event by telling God to give him a sign. This is a practice he himself taught was clearly un-Biblical and "unavailable". I don't remember if it was in the AC (or where it was) but he taught that the "dew on the fleece"(Judges, chapter 6) was an exception to the way it is supposed to work and that we can't tell God to give us a sign. So----Whether it was "revelation" or a fabrication, I don't know, but I do know it does not coincide with how he taught revelation is supposed to work.

A simple statement of credentials and curriculum might do wonders to bolster confidence and credibility. Would you agree to that much, Jonny?

Has anyone considered that this web site might be someone fishing for GSC identities and e-mail addresses. Not sayin' it is. It's just a thought that crossed my mind.

Just a thought---- Maybe the discussion re: Victor Wierwille's new endeavor would best be suited to its own dedicated thread as it seems a bit off topic to the current discussion.

Hello, Eyes I can't answer those questions for OCW but I can try to answer for myself. When I had my "experience"( I'm not calling it revelation because I really don't know WHAT it was.), I didn't even know there was such a thing as revelation, etc., much less that it was supposed to have some sort of profit. I had not taken PLAL yet. I had only gotten in the word maybe like a week or two before this. I only started speaking in tongues maybe 2 or 3 days before this happened. Stuff happened really fast back then!!!! I got witnessed to, spoke in tongues( without being coached to do so), manifested in believers meetings(didn't know you were supposed to have a class so when the leader said,"Will someone-----", I did.) and then(after all this) took PLAF within about my first 3 or 4 weeks in the word. Now, if it was revelation,( and, again, I'm not saying it was.) that kinda debunks the idea that you MUST SIT much before you can get revelation. The first thing I did (the next day) was to present this to my local leader. My leader told me it was unrenewed mind. I didn't even know what RM meant so he explained it to me. I believed him but the image was so vivid, it was a lot of work to try to squelch the memory when I tried to lift VPW. Another time, in this same time frame, I gave a word of prophesy in a believers meeting that went something like,"For, yea, people, thou art of------"(and I could sense myself about to say "Satan" but I pushed out the word "God".) If you've ever done any acting, you know that once you "go up" on a line, you have to fight it every time you come to it after that. Likewise, I had to consciously FOCUS every time a similar phrase would come up in a TIP or prophesy for quite some time. As I progressed in my time with TWI, it was brought to my attention that I probably was "entertaining devil spirits" when this stuff had happened because I was so new and didn't know how to renew my mind. Well, crazy as it might seem, that answer seemed to make sense. But it also caused two more things to happen. The first thing was that I felt a sense of guilt for having had these thoughts. The second thing it did was to motivate me to burn all my bridges so I wouldn't be tied to a past that included these things. In other words, it encouraged me to pursue a self deluded state of "renewed mind" so I could purge myself of this apparently "unclean" thinking. Here I am, 35+ years later, still trying to understand what the heck really happened.

Can't answer. ( on account of I'm from Cleveland. )

I'm not familiar with the program nor am I judging it, but the ad. could have easily been for Fellow Laborers 35 yrs. ago. (Except for the work 4 hrs./study 4 hrs. part.) We worked 8 hrs. at secular jobs and then 4 more at limb hq. in the evening.

Yep I answered because it was supposed to be easily recognized. (Which it wasn't) How about this one: Jo Jo was a man who thought he was a loner.

Who's next?

Nope. Traffic did have an album called John Barleycorn Must Die, though. And there is a line in the song that says, "No parking by the sewer." (Kind of a traffic- like reference.)