waysider

Strangely, it has a somewhat opposite effect on me. It makes me angry as he!! when I sense that a superior is trying to manipulate me and belittle me. Yeah, you can scream in my face all day long and it won't phase me but when I sense that I am being undermined and played for a sap, it really ticks me off.(screams or no screams) I think part of that stems from an incident in Fellow Laborers where we were locked in the limb BRC and subjected to a "make or break" weekend session. One of our FL sisters experienced what I would call a nervous breakdown. (I know that's not the correct term.) It was not a pretty site. She was never the same again as long as I knew her in the program. I really, really hope she eventually got the help she needed and rightfully deserved I don't think what they did to me had such a big effect personally but seeing what they did to her affected me profoundly. Does that make sense?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess Walk This Way by Aerosmith. Based more on the cadence than a recollection of the lyrics.

Has anyone besides me ever considered that Mat. 5:28 may be symbolic in nature? Maybe it isn't talking about something that, for the most part, is a natural function of the male mind. If men waited until they were married before they had sexual thoughts involving women---------------Well, there would be a whole lot more single men because sexual attraction is a natural part of the process, both for men and women. Like Frank said, the first century was a long time ago. We really don't understand what it was like to live in that culture. So, by trying to understand that verse in the context of our current culture(and the meanings of the words in that verse) we fail to explore the possibility that it is not talking about what we seem to think is so obvious.

Hi back at you, Mo. Always good to see you here at the Cafe.

On the contrary, Oldies According to Wierwille himself, the only way to have fruit of the spirit is to operate the manifestations "much". His behavior certainly does not seem to depict someone who is operating the manifestations "much".

Having served an apprenticeship in Actor's Equity many years ago, I can verify that faking a foreign language is a common exercise in many improvisational classes. Of course, in improv. class, it would be expected that one could go beyond a rudimentary short list of words. Whether or not he was "born again" or whether his "tongue" was genuine is not really the crux of this discussion. (IMO)

Great post, Wing!I don't know if I have said "welcome" yet so here is some Little Wing.(Yeah, I know, it's off-topic.)

I just kinda stumbled on that. I don't even remember what it was I was looking for. The guy on the right(stage left) cracks me up with his serious demeanor. I guess I should have posted it on the "silly thread".

Ya know--- I'm startin' ta think this whole debate of whether he was born again, whether he produced fruit, whether he spoke in tongues and on and on and on is just a diversionary tactic to take the focus off the heart of the issue. Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, whatever the heck he was, he scammed us!!! He played us for fools to satisfy his own depraved idea of "the abundant life". He used my money and yours to keep himself in a rather constant state of inebriation. He used my money and yours to buy an airplane, a motorcoach, a fleet of classic cars, a fleet of expensive motorcycles, expensive guns and hunting equipment, expensive hunting dogs, prime real estate, etc., etc., etc., etc. Along comes somebody who says they spent a month with him when he was out on a public relations driven tour and at a stage in his life when his health probably curtailed a good bit of his extreme activity. We're expected to disregard the testimony of people who spent YEARS with him when he was at the height of his depravity. I'll bet there are people who, to this day, could tell us all kinds of stories about how they spent time with Ted Bundy and found him to be a totally charming and wonderful individual. VPW was mentally ill.(IMO) I don't need to forgive him for that any more than I need to forgive my kid for getting the chicken pox. The thing is, he used that illness in a manner that hurt a whole lot of people instead of seeking help for himself. So, personally, I don't really care if he was "born again" or "produced fruit in his life" or "spoke in tongues" till the cows came home or secretly worshiped sea monkeys in the BRC. I do care, though, that he lied, stole, bullied, and abused people with what seems to be a total disregard for anyones' well-being aside from his own. That's what we are really being asked to forgive him for.

As inspired by WD's post.

The Bard seems to have made quite an impact by using interwoven sub-plots. Of course, not everyone is a big fan of his work, either.

Thanks for your response, SirG. Sorry if it seemed like I was misquoting you. I only used the quotation marks to indicate the meaning with which it struck me. Roy has touched on this aspect as well. Now I suppose I have to get off my butt and look at some of those older threads. waysider

What's a "calico script"?

Interesting stuff, SirG. What I am curious about(and please don't misinterpret this as skepticism), is how "the art of learning to accept death" fits with those who are never afforded that opportunity, such as those who die as newborns or those that have diminished mental capacity and so forth? I know there are Biblical answers for those scenarios such as guardian angels and the age of accountability. Maybe I just haven't read enough of your posts yet to see that angle. Dunno. Anyhow, I hope you will expound a bit more on this.

May I suggest you do so in the "doctrinal forum" where it seems to more appropriately fit?

No idea, whatsoever!

If and when it does, we at least have an avenue of recourse. We are allowed to post a response or opposing view , provided we follow the rules that have been clearly defined. The luxury of voicing an opposing view is something that was not always "available" in TWI, especially in Fellow Laborers. My handle,"waysider" has its origin in the practice of discussing discrepancies and sharing confidences with other FL.

"In Ancient Greece, 'hubris' referred to actions taken in order to shame and humiliate the victim, thereby making oneself seem superior." From this source>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris Perhaps his behavior was merely symptomatic of much greater problems. _______________________________________ "With the propensity to act only on the behalf of one's self, the unbridled need to feed one's ego, and the objectification of others to serve the power hungry needs of megalomania, it is easy to see how this can be a recipe for disaster, especially when wrapped in a charismatic personality." From this source>>> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-megalomania.htm ________________________________________________ Do we forgive someone for being ill, or do we forgive them for using their illness to inflict damage?

I had the pleasure of attending a solo show by John Hartford almost 40 years ago. What an amazingly talented guy he was. He played banjo, fiddle, guitar and even clogged on a piece of board as he played like one of those old fashioned Mr. Jazzbo toys that kids used to play with. The world lost a great one when he passed on. He had a way of telling a story and transporting you to some other place and time. It was easy to forget that he was "performing" and just immerse yourself in the energy of the moment. Thanks for that memory, David

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.

Ahhhhh!!--Now that would be Sunshine Of Your love-------Cream!

That's Paul Butterfield blowing harp. (just days before he left the planet forever)