waysider

Ya know---- I'm startin' ta think youse guys ain't so "tough", after all! (And that's a good thing----a really, really good thing.)

As usual, SirG, you have set a table that is filled with food for thought.

It adds a great deal to this discussion. Thank You

My apologies to anyone named Dan.

Here is a link to a web site that talks about that subject. http://www.thewritingmachine.net/about_author.php Although the author's schedule does not allow him to continue with new installments, the site is still "up" and filled with insight . And, of course, their are quite a few posters here at GS who grew up under those circumstances as well.

Hi, Jonny I can't speak for DWBH but as for myself, I would have to say we will never know the answer to that question in this lifetime. The only man who really knew the answer took it with him to his grave.

Good points, Cman We allowed ourselves to trust them to be honest with us. That was a mistake.

Great post, Sky Sorry to cut so much of your post out but I only wanted to comment on this one item, regarding "Jesus with his disciples". I think for some of us, the possibility of "studying at the master's feet" ("Jesus with his disciples") was a big draw. Of course, in Fellow Laborers, we didn't have VPW but the concept was the same. Both programs were heavily promoted as being patterned after this format. Based on a thread that appeared here a while back, I think there must have been some of that very early on, but by 1975 there was little evidence of it in Fellow Laborers. Once a week we had a formal meeting that resembled a branch meeting. Toward the end of my stay, it became one of the most dreaded times of the whole week for us because it meant we would have to endure a grueling night of belittling and ridicule. I can somewhat understand how an outsider might think it would be easy to just "walk away". But when you combine the importance of keeping a commitment with an uncertainty of what the world holds outside the "one true household", it's really not very easy at all. I think for some of us, who were adults and had already seen our share of "toughening up" in the real world, it broke our spirits and sense of optimism

Now that's just crazy! Every Fellow Laborer knows the holiest of holy "fire rings" was at LIMB HQ. Come to think of it, we even laid fresh cut sod around it one night by the light of a full moon. ( I'm not kidding!)

You Mom is a smart lady.

I just wanted to add that I think Socks hit the nail on the head(and then some) in his most recent post. You too, excie-----Mwah!(Did I do that right?) Thanks, everyone for your responses.

CK/Greg "So why is this hatred here, isn't this the same thing that TWI did?" Can you clarify what you mean by hatred?

This is the response that was given to my citing of that incident. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No I don't view it that way. I view it as all part of the program to toughen you guys up. Instead of looking at it like a weakling getting victimized, take it as a challenge to do bigger and better things. That was the attitude of mine in the corps despite all the wacky stuff we did there too ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The topic being discussed, even though it was a diversion from the "Losing The Way" thread, was mind control, not physical fitness. The poster who responded to me was engaging in a denial that Kristen's references to mind control were valid. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then, someone changed the subject( whether intentional or not, I don't know) to put the focus on LEAD and physical fitness. So, even though there were physical elements present in the programs, that is not the focal point of this thread.

This is the incident that I cited on "losing The Way". (It was in response to a poster who scoffed at the notion that mind control was part of Kristen's experience.) I started this thread to avoid derailing the other. ------------------------------------------------------------ One time(and there were many) we were rousted out of bed in the middle of the night, ordered to drive to limb HQ within a time frame that was physically impossible to meet, and ordered to sit in total silence and darkness for what seemed to be an eternity. When the meeting started, we were castigated for tardiness and told that we, the Fellow Laborers , were the reason that the ultimate goal of Word Over The World was in jeopardy. You see, it was told to us that our performance was a total disgrace to "God and His Word" and since we were in the "birthplace" of the ministry, we were dragging the whole ministry down"spiritually". We had no idea what we could have possibly done. There was no question and answer session. We were forbidden to discuss it. We were forbidden to speak during the meeting The program was to be terminated when the sun came up. The next morning, we all met one last time at our 5 am meeting and were informed that we were being given one more chance but we would have to follow orders to a tee without question or else. Are you seriously telling me that you don't see elements of mind control in that incident? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That blizzard of '78 was a once in a lifetime fiasco. It was totally unexpected. I think it set an all time record for low barometric reading.(IIRC) It was pointless to try to go outdoors because the gale force winds made it impossible walk or even catch your breath. Snowdrifts were up to the 2nd story windows in some places. Where I was at the time, there were farmers actually burning their furniture to stay warm because power crews couldn't even use snowmobiles to go out and make repairs. No trucks could get on the road to deliver propane or heating oil either. This one really pales in comparison, though I think we got more snow this time. My neighbor just used his snowblower to clear his walk, my walk and the next walk over. Is that a great neighbor or what?

I find myself inclined to disagree with you on this assessment. First The original "toughen up" comment was made in direct response to me, regarding an incident I posted that happened in Fellow Laborers(not The Way Corps) in the mid 1970's There was no LEAD program for fellow Laborers nor did the Corps program always include LEAD. Second I was incorrectly portrayed as a weakling who was playing the "victim" card. I never said I felt like I, myself, was a victim, though I have stated that I did see others who were, what I would consider to be, victimized. Third The incident was rationalized as part of a *growing process* that I should have anticipated and that I was at fault for not doing that. Nowhere in any agreement that Fellow Laborers made was there ever any indication we would be subjected to what amounted to abusive treatment, which tends to have more of a tendency to stifle growth than to promote it. Fourth Physical training is NOT synonymous with "toughening up". The physical training we received in Fellow Laborers came in the form of calisthenics and jogging. It was not a "toughening up" process. Physical training is not even relevant to the particular incident. ------------------------------------------------------ The original toughening up statement had nothing to do with the level of physical training we should have expected. If anything, people who knew me in Fellow Laborers probably thought I needed a little "softening up", not "toughening up".

Pistol Packin' Mama-------------The Frank Wakefield band with Glenn Weiser.

I really enjoyed that. What is the music piece that accompanies it?

But then again, how many are no longer alive because of TWI 1?

Kinda makes me wish I had signed the "green card" with disappearing ink.

OOPS! (I thought this was the "Humpty Dumpty" thread.) [:-)

No problem, excie. I think you conveyed your point quite eloquently.

I was not thrown out nor was my exit dramatic in nature. I simply drifted away because of family and work commitments. Truth be known, I had been slowly drifting away for a half dozen years or so before I finally made the break. And quite honestly, that whole idea of walking away from the "hedge of protection" seemed very frightening at first. When I hear people ask, "why didn't you just walk away?", I have to wonder where the heck they were when the "hedge of protection" and the "one true household" doctrines were being drilled into our heads. I mean, people really believed that if they ever left, they would find themselves standing spiritually naked in a world run by the Devil and be at his mercy, to do with them whatever he chose. I think that scripture about a dog returning to its vomit was used to reinforce this. They taught that if you ever left after now having heard "The Truth", your life would be much worse than it was before you "got in The Word". Well, that stuff never happened, but what took me by surprise was that, after nearly 20 years of people telling me how much they "loved me" and how I was "the best", no one even seemed to notice I was gone. No one bothered to come looking for me. I was unaware of the crazy things I have since learned here on GSC regarding the abuses at the upper levels and the law suits and such. For the most part, before I came to The Cafe, I thought of myself as a part of TWI in the same sense as a person who has moved a couple states away from home but is still a part of their family. I never felt like I had left God or that God had left me. I just felt like I had somehow disappointed God by forsaking what I thought was "the one true household." I definitely don't feel that way anymore.

Thanks, excie That's not only a beautifully performed song, it's a very powerful message.

Maybe none of them had an "orange" cover.